ad-free
A marketplace for speech.
82,484 Hours of Speech
help
help
516,432 Transcriptions
add title (free)
add title (free)
407 Sources
add source €0.99
add source €0.99
Search:
Newsbud
Title: Oregon Standoff: Could This Not Guilty Verdict Restore Faith in the Judicial System?
Published: 2016-11-11
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5RlbLY19Ys
Title: Oregon Standoff: Could This Not Guilty Verdict Restore Faith in the Judicial System?
Published: 2016-11-11
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5RlbLY19Ys
1/173
everyone I'm Spiro Agnew's but dot com for this episode of news buds round table we're going to be discussing the organ standoff trial the conclusion and the related topics everything from the media coverage to the upcoming trial that's gonna be taking place in Nevada joining me this week is news by its own legal analyst Todd McFarlane he's an attorney a rancher a writer a political activist2/173
and a commentator and I'm also joined with news by its own Sibel Edmonds who is the founder and editor in chief of news but welcome how are you both doing very well I good to be here for this interesting exciting discussion of BP we were planning BP planning to have this debate this discussion not only one but several of these for the past couple of months3/173
but with the verdict in place it's good to make it happen finally and %HESITATION hopefully we will be following this one up with some other interesting %HESITATION boats roundtable debates but also presentation welcome thought good to have you with us thanks to balance Spiro well I would like to go ahead and and start with this %HESITATION verdicts I know a lot of people including myself be4/173
we were surprised because considering the fact that this took place in the federal court in Oregon and the part of Oregon with the with the you know the demographic that the not seem very %HESITATION and how would I put this up friendly to to this issue off both ranchers and that public lands and that BLM etcetera I I was surprised and I just wanted to because5/173
I'm not an attorney some little put it in layman's terms and I'm gonna of summarized it very briefly it my understanding and then let me Cora just say that and then you can correct me taught and say okay you got this part wrong despite wrong because again we have been following the case through publications both mainstream media but also people who attend at the court sessions6/173
and I just wanna see we are getting it right I know a lot of people are not really familiar with the case thanks to the media coverage especially Oregonian so let let me see if I'm getting this right so we had no horrible okay good also forgive me I'm not gonna be legally correct with some of these though %HESITATION terminologies or how or how I put7/173
it so please feel free to correct me me had twelve members of jury in this federal court who sat through months of deliberation where governments spend millions of dollars on legal expenditure bringing in expert witnesses bringing in more informants than even the number of defendants in this case and beat their accountants sitting here and and basically adding up some some some really outrageous numbers in terms8/173
of damages supposedly these defendants a inflict it up through their protests and after hearing all this dozens of witnesses government witnesses including infiltrators and informants than all these forensic experts they came out east albums the battle before the lord you have them government witnesses now that's that's the that's amazing so these men and woman any bomb correct there are eight woman four man correct okay thing9/173
in this trial there were seven defendants third started out with eight but baby dismissed the case against Pete Santelli before the trial began so that left seven six men and one woman Shauna Cox yes and as far as the jury makeup we had eight Olympic and talking about the jury eight women the final jury that decided the case after juror number eleven pan what was perplexed10/173
and alternate what's new in IT women three men okay so nine up okay nine woman three man US selected randomly served up on this jury and they heard Ole decides for big government and in fact we had some of the defendants such as and then but I'm neat representing himself with the help of the legal consultant co chair and they came out and they gave a11/173
not guilty verdict is that correct that is correct our again it did come as I think whitish talked to a lot of people I think it was a big shock to judge brown because I think she had done everything in her power to try to stack the deck against the defendants I think it came as a big shock to almost everyone in the mainstream media and12/173
my view is the biggest reason there was such a shock is that most of those people were blinded by their own biases %HESITATION I've been watching this case our since the occupation began core back in January and I've bulleted very closely as you know I spent the first week in Portland at the trial and all the way along as I followed it very closely over and13/173
over again I've said the government is putting on a very weak and marginal case they're just I mean you'd see all of this stuff in social media about all the threats and all the intimidation and all that supposed violence and everything and people debating in claiming this that and the other well at the end of the day when the government tried to put on the evidence14/173
that was admissible in the case and a lot of it ended up being social media evidence but again forties to that one witnesses and they had what they called the gun show they paraded in all kinds of guns and ammunition and all of this now I called the six ring circus in some of the stuff that I've talked about it really was but despite all of15/173
that the government did not put on a strong case because what they were trying to prove they have to prove the intent of the defendants they have to prove that these defendants went to the refuge and they went there for the purpose of entering into a conspiratorial agreements to impede or interfere with federal officers and the government they were all they had was circumstantial evidence they16/173
could show that they went there they could show that they stepped things but saw the dependence of course had an opportunity to present their evidence that evidence included Ammon Barbie's own testimony for almost three days where he just that ever and that's rare it's very rare in a case like this that a defendant will take the stand because they have a you know they complete the17/173
fifth they have the Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate themselves and so they don't need to take the stand and testify but Ammon Bundy and several several of the other defendants said Hey we really don't have anything to hide we think that will do better but I just laying out the reasons we were there what we were trying to accomplish it had everything to do with18/173
the why insists the even happened and what had happened to them and and they were there basically engaging in a continuation of a protest demonstration and by the time they were done telling their side of the story obviously the jury found their side of the story more compelling that all the evidence the government put on that's that's it in a nut shell that just explains that19/173
you had twelve members of the jury who were randomly selected from all over the state of Oregon many from the Portland metropolitan area they heard the defendant's teleplay heard the government tell it and they return a not guilty verdict so just so that everyone understands this there were thirteen total charges that included a conspiracy charge against each and everyone of the seven defendants them installed on20/173
them were charged with %HESITATION possession of firearms I saw more not that charge was dismissed again Sean o'clock during the trial because the government presented no evidence but she had ever possessed that a firearm there then there were also a couple of additional charges %HESITATION Ryan Bundy was charged with theft of government property that related to hit his taking down some FBI surveillance cameras and then21/173
sank to the FBI would take your cameras down here they are come get him in other words %HESITATION we're not really trying to steal them and then the other one was this Kim met balk one of the defendants who had %HESITATION act he can a refuge vehicle closed steady point eight what did it at the time when I heard that about what are these guys thinking22/173
what are they thinking taking the vehicle to Safeway but it all tied in to what their plan once he took it the same way he bought some groceries he came well he was arrested at Safeway but the bottom line is he said we don't have any intention of permanently depriving the federal government of this vehicle we worried you'd sitting at its pop public vehicle were members23/173
of the public we did not do it with the intention of permanently depriving the government and you know what I think it was surprising to a lot of people that the jury would death find those pieces of evidence that story as compelling as they did but they found a persuasive they came back and they return a not guilty verdict for each and every defendant audible every24/173
single charge except the charge against Ryan Bundy for theft of government property relating to the video cameras and on that charge the video are excuse me the jury was not able to read a consensus so they bay they were basically in a hung jury status as the bat single charge not guilty on every other charge I mean it it is it it's hard to imagine now25/173
it's hard to imagine them but %HESITATION that's that's it but not shell so they'll well %HESITATION let me have a quick question here has this kind of restore your fate not on judges of course not the federal courts not the federal agents but when it comes to having randomly selected Leslie is truly randomly selected jury members and leaving the decision up to the people you know26/173
back it it really does not you you per beast to it before and that written a series of politics or news button pulling rocks %HESITATION legal reality check and I often refer to what I call the so called justice system yeah and that is the honest to goodness truth that I participated in another jury trial here in Utah %HESITATION earlier this summer that it wasn't quite27/173
as on our what should we say earthed JD king verdict but it was a verdict that came out of that trial that that started really helping to restore and some of my lost faith in the so called justice system and and so I I think that's what it boils down to that's why we have a constitutional right to a jury trials that we can have members28/173
of our so called Pierce hear the evidence against this and and make a determination and and it's true I no question about it it yet restore some my faith in in the whole system's the bell well %HESITATION I would say a lot of this surprise for many people stems from the media coverage mainstream media and the pseudo alternative media coverage of this case right from the29/173
beginning okay so right from the beginning of the pseudo alternative and mainstream media has been portraying these protesters these protesters this group went amount more as well violent races a criminal bunch of crabs who were out there to hurt people they have guns and and and some people went as far as the the federal government should use their groans and bomb the hell that these people30/173
be we were reading you are following these this coverage now in contrast to what the mainstream media and these establishments funded alternative media portrayal off these people and their demonstration can't we just go through some of these lies and misconceptions they plant it do you think this entire protest there in Mao war refuge did any of these defendants enough them any of the protesters heard any31/173
federal agents or members of the law enforcement here in the state so there was no evidence presented of any kind that anyone had been harmed I know of no evidence of heart in fact when those but the students were put on the spot they could not even point to any actual threats of harm by any of the defendants that were on trial so that's something that32/173
we've heard a lot about through the mainstream media through the alternative media through the social media all this business about brats and all of that stuff but when push came to shove and the government had to put on any evidence of that there was no admissible evidence to be presented of any car harm of any kind whatsoever just about and that includes the local people there33/173
residents because I know we gained the media went and cherry pick a couple of people locally who were complaining about the fact that the refuge was occupied for protests but the V. ourselves wearing ball because believe here in central Oregon and from based on our observation many of the people we spoke wait you heard from they were very supportive of the protesters but to just be34/173
clear here taught these people did not threaten did not harm need not damaged any of the properties of the local residents here in that area in that county where the protest took place is that correct that's correct no evidence of any kind was presented up any harm any damage any actual threats no force there was no evidence of anything worse are Ben it comes down to35/173
this question of intimidation and did they do anything to intimidate anybody and that really and you use the word early on in your eBay feed what students bell you does that guns and really that's I think what this whole case boils down to is the issue of guns they didn't actually the jury found they did not do anything unlawful they were engaging in a protest demonstration36/173
we see protest demonstrations all over this country for all kinds of reasons but only because some of those people and I say some because not all of them there was no evidence presented that Ammon Bundy the leader of the demonstration ever possessed a firearm at the refuge in that's the case with a number of people but because guns were involved that seemed to be that that37/173
issue that that thing that everyone in the media especially tried to really jump on to make this in this other than it was it's that issue of guns and and so I mean that's really what it boils down to not shell because someone had a gun Ben they wanted to try to make they wanted to try to make this big league the violence that was just38/173
never there so bell the only violence that ever happened to anyone in connection with this case was the government was the violence that the government inflicted on the defendants including the killing of low voice been a come that's the only violence that there was any evidence of whatsoever I'm glad you clarified this type there is there was another of false and line of %HESITATION information that39/173
%HESITATION mainstream media Oregonian also national coverage had to do with these protesters who have the right under the first amendment to protest and have the right under a second amendment to lawfully you know carry carry their guns which they didn't use that they did because millions and millions and millions of dollar damage to delay ends so what was that about because obviously diverted says not guilty40/173
and I never understood based on researching the case going there talking with people you and I spoke about this angle but what's really talking about and that includes their creatures from Oregonian and of course the national media coverage because the mouthpiece of the federal government in many cases were already re felt me farting to bend they were accusing these product protesters who were found to be41/173
not guilty in any of these charges inflicting millions of dollars of damage what was that about talk well there's no question Sibel but that was about huge are exaggeration over exaggeration I mean if there were a couple of terms or concepts that I would use to describe everything that happened in this case from start to finish what would be over reaction there was just a massive42/173
overreaction from the government from the media and then the other thing is again over exaggeration they've they've overreacted and they've over exaggerated everything it deeply any alleged damage %HESITATION so I think it's fair to say and just tried to be as you know as objective as we can about this issue well I'm look boyfriend to come was killed and amylin Ryan Bundy and the others were43/173
arrested that brought a lot of that that was a changing point in the occupation they basically been camping out at the refuge now as far as I can tell and I spent time with her they were trying to take care of things I was there when I was trying to help mediate a resolution I've heard them talking about well you know this door jamb had a44/173
problem so take some you know get some work at the shop cut to fit replacement paint it I mean that's the kind of discussions I heard in instead of damaging things they were trying to fix make they were trying to do things to improve the refuge and and that's that's what the evidence they presented at trial and the reality is the government was not able to45/173
present indeed real evidence of damage but it's fair to say that when all this went down it's just like if you were camping in a tent at a campground or something not everybody keeps but ideas campsites you know so you go somewhere you're planning on coming back up tidying it up when you get back they were going to John date to the meeting certainly their plan46/173
was the comeback and tidy things up maybe things worked perfectly ID when they left well they weren't able to come back and tidy up stole my assessment is there were some things about the refuge and the way they were panicked camping there don't well pin attempt type either no question about that I mean it's it's natural but to make this giant leap and say that they47/173
and it will be keeping things a little bit on because when they were arrested a bunch of the other occupiers they just split they just laughed and left everything left some gods all of that sort of thing and so they didn't tidy up they just got out of Dodge David Frye and Jeff banter and the Andersons they moved out of the refuge buildings over what they48/173
called the west encampment they were staying in it and basically from the twenty sixth of January till the eleventh of February and so thinks you know at that point time things will be done Heidi in that sense but in terms of this whole concept that there were millions of dollars of damage the bell there's only one word to describe that %HESITATION I mean politely and chair49/173
we and that's just the a a gross over exaggeration the government was not ever going to be able to put on any evidence to support those kinds of figures now and this is interesting because %HESITATION the refuge has not even yet been re opened if you can believe that yeah and some of the evidence that was presented through chat card just who is the refuge manager50/173
basically they took advantage of this opportunity the government did to probably spend quite a bit of money out there not to fix anything but to basically just redo a whole bunch of stuff they took this opportunity to remodel the refuge in an upgrade it and and so I think what they've done is taken some of that money that they spent to do those sorts of things51/173
and stat you don't this is this is fixing damage while there I don't think it was any real damage fixed but they remodeled the refuge they improved it they renovated it and they still haven't opened it and the whole reason they haven't opened it is because that fits the narrative that they've been trying to play this whole time yes and I'm gonna %HESITATION come back with52/173
more questions on other aspects again totally totally misinformation put out by the mainstream media but one good example of this was I forgot which one of the left wing media put this thing out the fact that they had found some poop and this is nature but you radically speaking is out there in the wildlife so good the pool is going to turn into fertilizer so they53/173
should have put that in the positive column not the negative column but to just make the point of how media how media reflected the fact that people camping in the tents some of those people have to go and defecate in the nature and by the right to bear idly by other get land read they actually dug a trench the kinda manage their human way case in54/173
that sense and yeah people have made the biggest plus about that sort of thing it's it's really I mean they act as if as human beings they don't have those you know well you said don't mince any words so how's this bomb they act like does the media people you're talking about the people are criticizing these campers if you will from digging a trench to are55/173
you know relieve themselves in these reporters and all they act like they're shit don't speak you know but they have like they don't do it and you know I mean it's it's a human conditions so I think that they they've taken stump debuted at how does that in a completely different context is what it boils down to not show I have a question here for Spiro56/173
Spiro we were we have been also following the another case a and this is that the coda pipeline case be have been reading the articles watching the footage etcetera and I know you have been paying attention to the footage because that's one of the areas that we have been keeping our eyes on and up as far as reporting %HESITATION goes of what what is your take57/173
because I'm looking at the two cases less thing I have to first year admit here in front of the camera that %HESITATION sympathetic towards protest thing against pipeline now as far as the style of protests I may not agree but I totally agree and support the notion off people peacefully protest thing having the pipeline going through their holy land or or for whatever reason I'm in