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Title: On Point with Charlie McGrath - Killing for a Lie -- Complete
Published: 2014-07-01
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fWjYeJGhUs
Title: On Point with Charlie McGrath - Killing for a Lie -- Complete
Published: 2014-07-01
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fWjYeJGhUs
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all right welcome to OnPoint my name is Charlie McGrath i'm the founder of wide awake news.com you listening to on point available exclusively on be boiling frogs post this is kind of a impromptu extra edition this week of on point and there's a real good reason for it my guests coming up here ross Caputi in just a minute put out a documentary that that absolutely blew2/85
me away for those of you who followed me at wide awake news or on my youtube channel my radio program on you know my history I am a Gulf War vet it went went to the that region of the world 24 years ago and that's that's incredible that's incredible that and we'll we'll touch on this as we go through the program tonight 24 years of conflict3/85
in that region of the world I actually saw an article that was about Ross and contacted him before I watched his documentary the name of documentary fear not the path of the truth and I was going to interview him about the you know his experience as a Marine is and the current situation with Isis in the Middle East but when I watched this documentary I you4/85
know I I do this every day I die cover political events every day I cover geopolitical events I cover you know the the propaganda of the military and security industrial complex so it doesn't I mean it takes it rather a lot to to get me rattled and this documentary absolutely did it I want to start off by saying that right here on you on point tonight5/85
you're going to have I'm 45 years old I served in the first Gulf War is considerably younger he had the opportunity he was a baby when I served no offense Roger probably just a little kid during the first Gulf War but he had the opportunity and I say that with air quotes to serve in that region of the world as I sit here in record this6/85
episode of on point I have a 14 year old son who's sitting two rooms away from the studio who is going to be asked to do the exact same thing now I consider Ross to be a hero I consider him to be a hero not because of his military service although I respect that I could have set it to him to be a hero for what7/85
he did after his military service I believe with my whole entire heart that it is incumbent upon us regardless of our military service or we or whatever we consider our level of patriotism to see injustice and point it out when we do see that injustice and one of the things that moved me about this documentary is the that that level of character Ross displayed serving in8/85
Iraq being in the fight that he was in knowing his knowing friends and I can I can you know commiserate with him on this knowing people who died for this cause yet still having the courage to stand up and call it what it is a complete and total lie that's the premise of tonight's program we're going to we're going to talk about his experience in Fallujah9/85
the lie that that was the Second Battle of Fallujah and a little bit about current events now Ross Caputi thank you very much and and I'm in every word I said I I truly consider your actions post military service completely heroic I respect your your service door to this country but what you're doing afterward takes real real courage in the face of everything that is presented10/85
to us as patriotic thank you very much and welcome to OnPoint oh thank you that's uh that's too much yeah it isn't too much like I said I do this on every single day of the week and it's very few things that moved me and your documentary did as I mentioned you know and let's get into a little bit i want to give the audience a11/85
little bit of a little bit of your background you you were in the Marine Corps but give us a little bit about you know Roscoe booty where you're from how you ended up in the military I'm from central Massachusetts you know no place notable I'm kind of just like you know working-class town my dad ran a bar um most my family was landscapers I thought it12/85
was going to be a landscaper when I got out of the Marine Corps so you know basically I didn't grow up very political you know my family never talked about politics I didn't have like any deep ideas about you know a citizen's duty in a democracy and you know what it what it meant to be an American and to you know to serve in the military13/85
and all these things I was kind of just a very insecure 18 year old kid and you know I kind of bought into the Marine Corps whole line of you know becoming a man and you know all these things that the marine could Marine Corps could do for you in terms of like you know getting girls and you know having a community respect you and all14/85
this stuff sure it's pretty you know in retrospect a selfish decision you know more than anything else not really in I'll interrupt just for a second because you know that's one of the things that drew me to you and your project is are similar backgrounds and it isn't just a coincidence you know we have a built-in draft in this country from any you're from anywhere Massachusetts15/85
I'm from anywhere Montana right mining town no jobs nothing to do once you graduated high school type of thing so naturally you're looking for opportunities and your I know I spy messaging with you earlier you're in school right now so I'm sure one of the considerations yet was you know getting a college education on the exact same way I couldn't afford it my dad couldn't afford16/85
it so you know we have this built-in draft so it isn't that super fun but I also feel like you know there's another element of it we're like you know we we tend to look at Wars like an experience right and I very much wanted that experience I wanted to come back home say it was a combat vet you know go to bars and get free17/85
beers and stuff like that and kind of get all that privilege that you get in this country for being a combat that I didn't even think about who I had to go to war against I just I just want to go to war I just I wanted that experience you know so that that's that's the selfish end of it but it's a cultural thing you know18/85
no doubt about it and and it's I understand it I've been there I've done it I've had felt the exact same thing and you know it's yeah and I guess way I'm not I'm not gonna spin this program debating the patriotism behind it and yeah but but the but the simple fact is we are geared to believe that we can do no wrong in this country19/85
that our military could do no wrong and you know we build up these young men and we completely turn into non-persons these people that that we encourage them to go perpetrate these acts against so yeah without a doubt let's so you're going the Marine Corps you're you're you know you're involved in the so-called de facto draft just because of a situation where you're at like so20/85
many people in this country are and you know I want to just take it right to Fallujah because that this is this is a pivotal moment in 2004 for the u.s. occupation of Iraq obviously you know regardless of people's amount of study they've done on this battle everybody's heard of it because it was you know when you were there that was all over the news we21/85
were we found him we found where the terrorists hotbed was we found where a lavake was we found you know if we could write them out this is the terror headquarters of Iraq and we need to go in and prosecute it and don't worry about it because there's no civilians there they all left out and it's nothing but a bunch of tearing love and terrorists there22/85
give me give me how it your command brought to the the Marines this level of Furber to go in and commit the acts that were committed yeah they used like a hostage crisis type analysis where or analogy where they said that you know the city of Fallujah had been taken over by this band of terrorists you know led by Abu Musab al-zarqawi the leader of al-qaeda23/85
in Iraq and they were oppressing the the civilian population of Fallujah ruling the city by by force and by terror and we were going to come in and liberate them right so there was this idea of the enemy that you know they were either ideologically or religiously driven to hate us for some irrational reason and they were oppressing the civilians of Fallujah didn't support them and24/85
the the only option was a all out military siege like the second siege of Fallujah right yeah all of this just turned out to be like completely inaccurate just a blatant lie um the the Marine Corps was conducting a psychological operation to exaggerate the role of Abu Musab al-zarqawi in Iraq and this was really important because he was kind of the main you know casus belli25/85
for the second siege of Fallujah the he was sort of the main premise or the main like existential threat that we said we had to go in and remove you know right he was the leader of al-qaeda in Iraq you know the main source of you know insecurity and criminality in any rock at the time and was the boogeyman he was the boogeyman in the elections26/85
were coming up in January in the the occupation so desperately needed to make it look like that this was a legitimate you know election not one being forced down the throat of Iraqis at the at the end of a gun right right so they needed to to just kill any threat that that on that opposed those elections but the thing is no falutin has ever seen27/85
this guy abu musab al-zarqawi there is zero evidence that this man ever set foot in their city and it was just a psychological operation by the US military to turn him into this you know boogeyman mythological figure and not only was you know he the existential threat he was also like an impossible condition on peace because the the occupation and the entire Iraqi government they told28/85
you know the leadership and Fallujah that you either need to turn over Abu Musab al-zarqawi to us or we're going to come in and lay siege to your city which is obviously ridiculous because the man was never in Fallujah so well it's like monumental lie that that led into this the the biggest operation of the entire occupation that killed so many people and displaced hundreds of29/85
thousands and you know poisoned an entire city for eternity and and it's almost like um I mean it's almost like a microcosm of the war on terror right you have you have to build up the the boogeyman you have to you know install this fear in your in the case of the sexies of Fallujah it was you were they were installing this fear in the people30/85
of this country I mean we were already there under false pretenses we needed to have this this major victory and probably uh you know set as the send a signal you know what the the combined might of the United States at the British was going to be so you set up this this boogeyman absolvo Zarqawi and you you convinced that the the regardless of what the31/85
outcome is it is going to be worth the carnage and the sacrifice and I mean you know you could this is a relatively small scale one city but we see it you know throughout the planet now everything is based on this model of generating the fear and then offering the solution with the solution inevitably leads to innocence being you know wiped out and the loss of32/85
in the case United States in our current situation the loss of freedom and the loss of sovereignty so it's I mean it's a textbook case or a textbook model of how this planet is run at this point yeah you're absolutely right to this very day with is is being the boogeyman in Iraq today they're still using this model heartily and and it's you know it isn't33/85
just Iraq it's it's North Africa and it isn't going to be just North Africa we see you know that it's spreading it to Easter Europe now and I'm more than confident that that's going to be the next terror hot spot where we have to go in and you know free the people of Ukraine from these pro-russian separatists terrorists or or something a lot of those lines34/85
but but I want everybody to understand because the the the propaganda on Felucia was non-stop it was absolutely intense and it was a battle cry it was they tried to make it almost into like an Alamo type situation but it it give me give me an idea for submarine has been on the ground what is Fallujah I mean is it is it a town of thousand35/85
people is it it is a couple thousand I mean what was Fallujah and what did it turn into Fallujah it's roughly the size of Boston it's a city of 300,000 people it's one of the biggest cities in western Iraq and on on on our bar profits and you know like historically it has always been a city that was very militant and you know very nationalistic and36/85
that they just will not accept foreign occupations they were one of the main forces that kick the British out of Iraq when when the British was occupying them back in the 1920s and they've always kind of had this this reputation as a city that you know just could not be not be dominated by foreign powers so yeah but the second siege came in and just destroyed37/85
a full two thirds of the city the the estimates were one-third was completely leveled to the ground just app like rubble just razed to the ground the next third had every building had major structural damage you know like walls falling down enormous holes in every house and the last third only had minor structural damage the electrical grid was completely destroyed the the plumbing throughout the city38/85
was completely destroyed 200,000 refugees somewhere between four thousand and six thousand civilians killed and the ecological damage is arguably the worst part of this because now in Fallujah is really serious public health crisis possibly one of the most serious public health crises in the world right now we got fourteen percent of all babies in born in Fallujah being born with birth defects and cancer rates and39/85
children are 12 times the norm it's just uh it's awful and yeah and yeah I was going to say that fourteen percent for provokes they don't understand how big of a number that is you point out in your documentary that in a nation like in Japan the the birth birth defect rate is about one or two percent so and then people independent organizations of winning and40/85
tested and not only found depleted uranium which is using munitions but they found any riched enriched rather uranium I mean these are carcinogens that are and causing birth defects on massive scale to to a city that is I that that that's what blows me away that the size of the city 300,000 people this is a major American city if you could only imagine every single you41/85
know building every single home sustaining some kind of damage now a you know give me I don't know how to ask his loaded question so I'll just I'll just say it outright the narrative was that Ross you know as a marine you're out there gunning and you know doing reconnaissance by fire but don't worry about it Ross because the only people left in this town are42/85
terrorists is that was that was that the case that was exactly the case um that's what my command told us you know going into the city all civilians have left you don't have to worry about you know non-combatants and on the very it's just so strange because um our mentality is really kind of its unexplainable inexcusable and explainable it was just madness once we got into43/85
the city on the very first day we saw civilians they were you know trying to cross the street with white flags in the middle of a big gunfight and so obviously civilians were in the city and we knew it but that you know we didn't that didn't give us reason to change our tactics or reason to more cautious with the way we were proceeding on the44/85
second or third day we saw a civilian again an old man standing on the side of the robe of prayer beads in his hand was shot and killed but you know we continued to operate as if there were no civilians in the city and as if we didn't have to take any precautions to safeguard civilian life we were bold those and houses to the ground like45/85
anyhow we suspected of having you know possibly having insurgents inside we just bulldoze it to the ground rather than sending our guys in and possibly you know them getting hurt maybe a week in 25 days six days into it um I saw the unit to our right flank bulldozing an entire neighborhood just one house after the other not even checking to see what's inside um things46/85
just uh our safety became like the most important thing and any idea of like safeguarding civilian life went out the window immediately so we did we proceeded completely indiscriminately using them tactics like reconnaissance by fire like you mentioned in just proceeding as if there were no civilians even though we kept finding civilians in the city it was just madness hey and if I remember correctly from47/85
your report the people would try to leave in some cases women and children you know would be allowed to leave but if they were fighting age males they weren't getting out of Fallujah yeah yeah and it's important to note that you know that's a major war crime by definition you know that's indiscriminate you know it didn't matter if there was any evidence that they were resistance48/85
fighters or not um it was so strange to because on one hand we were trying to to create the sharp distinction between the bad guys in the city and the civilian but at the same time we were collapsing the two so it was just this strange mentality that uh that in the end justified whatever we did what was what was the reaction I mean well you49/85
know the fact is you're in you're in the heat of battle so you know in in 2004 you're not you're not the same Ross Caputi as you are now are you not the same person that you were you know after the battle you yeah your priorities obviously were to survive but what was there was a recognition by any of yourself at the time or any of50/85
the other troops the combat troops i'm not talking I'm naughty I mean even the leadership in the lieutenant level or captain or company level I'm sure we're all swept up in this but it was there any feeling at that time that this was this was horribly wrong and you know it was going to be an absolute massacre for non-combatants now that's the craziest thing to me51/85
um you know just the how much we were able to kind of like delude ourselves and even even seeing women and children fleeing into the desert you know leaving their homes and my crew heading off into this like desperate situation you know you still managed to convince yourself that you're doing this for them for their freedom and democracy and you tell yourself this story and you52/85
believe it I mean I remember walking into people's houses you know seeing family photo albums and you know pictures on the wall pictures of a once you know very happy city in like you know all the memories you know attached to these houses and you know and just in destroying their houses and seeing people who'd out of their houses and all this stuff and still being53/85
able to feel like you know we were doing this for them it's it is no other word for this just madness it was totally irrational it can't be explained oh and and the thing you know when you're there in 2004 a city of 30,000 people coping getting by and they've been living at that point in time all of Iraq had been living under you know years54/85
of sanctions and years of of us you know bombing him on occasion or at least preventing the basic necessities of life for the people of Iraq and lets you know be really clear who say never suffered you never suffer from any UN sanctions it was the people in these cities that suffered so you're already going into a town there's you know getting by at best right55/85
yeah I mean you know from the friends that I have now in Fallujah you know people I work with you know through the activism I do they tell me about that period and you know they had to eat bread that was so moldy you know it was entirely blue and green and you know it was so tough to find like basic like you know nutrition meat56/85
vegetables produce you know there they were just living off of scraps it was a really desperate time for them it's amazing to me and watching your documentary and in just in when you sit in retrospect and contemplate the situation of the people you know these individuals in Fallujah it's amazing to me that there wasn't more a fight there wasn't more attacks there you know that there57/85
isn't more animosity because they've been living in such conditions for so long and then you know to have the British and Americans roll in and you know basically turn their city of 300,000 into a giant Fema camp and and then just start knocking stuff down it's amazing to me that that you know this is I mean look this is how we have generated terrorism on this