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Newsbud
Title: BFP Newsbud Roundtable debate: Do Elections Change Anything
Published: 2016-05-24
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxn77gFCrlE
Title: BFP Newsbud Roundtable debate: Do Elections Change Anything
Published: 2016-05-24
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dxn77gFCrlE
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welcome this is a special boiling frogs post and do spurred round table conversation I'm Peter B. columns in San Francisco joining us this evening or wherever your whatever time you're listening but it is evening for me in San Francisco Sibel Edmonds from bend Oregon James Corbett from western Japan and Brock west from somewhere down under in Australia nice to have all of you with us and2/116
today we're going to talk about new spurred and we're gonna talk about it in the context of the presidential election our campaign and coverage here in the good old US of a and we have a little a difference of perspective here and we're going to share that with you because I think it will inform your understanding of what the mission of news but is and how3/116
we are different from other media outlets and Sibel earlier today you shared with the group stunning poll that was released %HESITATION and reported on by our teeth that shows that ninety one percent of American voters under the age of thirty are not satisfied with the a choice between trump and Clinton are in the November general election and they explicitly want to see what is described are4/116
as an independent are you running in this in this race that number drops to fifty five percent but still a clear majority when you look at voters of all age groups and recently are I just completed a couple of podcasts with an activist named Kevin Zeese and the seas has written a piece O. where he describes a path forward for senator Bernie Sanders who's currently running5/116
and losing in the democratic primary and he's losing because of the machinery that is controlled by the Clintons and their allies and the various impediments that are built in to the two party system in this country now for news but my plans with the weekly video podcasts that will be producing starting in June is not to cover the he said she said of the campaign or6/116
who raised the most money or who got hit with a nasty tweet the most recently from Donald Trump but I see the potential here bit of Bernie Sanders moves from the Democratic Party to the Green Party that he will have access to the ballot in %HESITATION as many as forty or forty two states with enough traction to possibly get to the two hundred seventy votes needed7/116
to win the presidency through our arcane electoral college and while this is a bit of a crap shoot and it's really hard to predict how it might turn out I consider it less risky than supporting either Clinton or trunk are and I think our viewers are probably understand those reasons pretty well so for me are this is a historic opportunity to break up the dominance the8/116
duopoly that Republicans and Democrats have enjoyed for decades and the prospect is that that could lead to a real re organization of the partly the system and the electorate here in the United States so that's my focus Sibel no it's so me and this is a very interesting perspective and this is one of the reason I like boiling frocks posts I have loved it out to9/116
have different perspectives within the same of information use websites and same thing applies to %HESITATION news but as well because the United read a lot of things but in even this thing for example we have differing points and we have been working together for eight years to me that's the that's the success story of both for me are and and some other people that we have10/116
it also boils down to this this them it's not only about the candidate you know you have the same system and you have different candidates you end up having even less they you you had someone independent succeeding and and and winning you program inside the same system you really can't expect anything to change our best number one and also I think a lot of it boils11/116
down to the definition of independent okay I don't know exactly what but people need of it and they say independent of whether is %HESITATION Green Party Ralph Nader or Sanders I don't see much difference personally between Sanders and Hillary Clinton and the you may disagree with me but as far as a lot of things that I have you as as as major problems such as a12/116
government spending and big government I don't see how Sanders is going to be any better for people who stand for much smaller or even you know minute level of government so would I see it as the improvement did the notion of independent party sounds good and independent people but then regained that may put this illusionary of false illusion rooting for people that that's the way to13/116
fix things and I don't believe that is the way to fix it you have to go you have to go really to the root causes of this that thing that a good example again would be the media you know people said well good now we have truth out dot org it's that there are they are not mainstream they are alternative right now we have been having14/116
this debate are they really alternative so they were born they were supported and the people cheered when they entered the scene as alternative but many you get down to it have we seen anything alternative or even if they were they meant to be alternative they ended up and tearing it within a system that was they carry carry over from the mainstream so %HESITATION and this is15/116
this is why I thought this discussion would be interesting because we do have these different perspectives including perspective from Australia ever %HESITATION what voting is compulsory and be have %HESITATION James Corbett here and I have listened to every single one of his programs and and I and I always template green on this particular thing as well in that the bin you have this force this them16/116
and you're looking at some symbolic or you get lost in this symbolise them this is how the system actually last because otherwise of course they're going to be calling us radicals which I guess we are %HESITATION according to them then we say hold on a second you're looking at an entire system that is corrupt and then you're looking at these tiny particles called candidate of are17/116
we really talking about any any change here I mean real significant change well I I don't think it will be revolutionary but I think that because Sanders is running from the outside he's challenging the establishment and in particular he has called out the corruption of our %HESITATION pay to play campaign campaign finance system that can't be fixed overnight but the the other side for me and18/116
and let's be honest I I've been all around since Nixon was president and I've been watching the ups and downs of the American political system I'm very cynical about many aspects of it but I refuse to %HESITATION just to you know step outside and ignore it entirely because I believe that I've been able to impacted it in different ways at different times and I've also seen19/116
for example I just one one %HESITATION example offer is that when Xander started running about a year ago you talked about a fifteen dollar minimum wage and everybody said no we can't do that all the Republican candidates flatly said no increase in the minimum wage and now we have the %HESITATION the two coastal states New York and California that have passed measures to increase the minimum20/116
wage over the next five years to hit that fifteen dollar mark also %HESITATION you know we have candidates who were opposed to marriage equality and %HESITATION they've had to change to catch up with of public attitudes that have shifted and so changed does happen it doesn't happen in a pretty or predictable way and I prefer to be an inside agitator then a completely outside critic %HESITATION21/116
and and also I I just feel like I said that there is a unique opportunity this year I it's not just Tweedle dum and Tweedle Dee are there is a chance to radically shake up the system but let's turn to our to James and Brock and get their perspectives as well James well let me preface what I'm going to say by saying first of all I'm22/116
not stupid and I realize there is a case to be made for gradual and implementation of changes that over time can make a difference to society and I'm not walking or riding that or or ignoring the nuance of an idea like that I'm having said that that doesn't make for an interesting debate so let me get to the more hard core principles because ultimately my position23/116
is not one of consequential ism I am not looking at this as this plan of action will have this effect and it will benefit this number of people in this way therefore it's slightly better than this way I'm not into strategizing like that I'm looking for the fundamental moral ethical principles at play here and I think it's two fold one is that fundamentally I am for24/116
the removal of violence and force as a means of getting people to do what are you want them to do in society and that is fundamentally what the political game is about and so having fifty percent plus one or whatever magical number deciding that this or that person will be president and therefore you know this or that policy will be implemented is only handing the keys25/116
to the kingdom to your worst enemies because at some point someone you do not want to have that position of power is going to grab the brass ring of power and we'll that for their purposes and at that point you've already bought into the system so you're going to have to say okay well I guess fifty percent plus one voted for it so I guess we'll26/116
just have to wait for our turn and that is not a game that I think is with that I want to play a little on that is beneficial for society to play the other part of this is that the Pentagon is never going to dismantle itself the multi trillion dollar in but I'm military industrial terror complex is never going to go quietly into that good night27/116
%HESITATION I guess there are enough people voted for this or a politician is telling us to to get rid of a few tips to spend ourselves we saw what happened when JF JFK said that we've gonna crack that CIA into a thousand pieces and scattered into the wind they scattered a thousand pieces of his cranium on not Dealey plaza so I'm I I just don't see28/116
the political process either as the moral and ethical way of trying to solve these problems or even an effective one if you want to look at the consequence list argument listen live rock well I mean they kind of envious on envious position of kind of agreeing with all three of you have the signs on will have in my hand opinion here in Australia %HESITATION I'm completely29/116
completely cynical but also you do understand that it does need to be some kind of incremental step out why or at all what dismantling off the system and of course the next question that follows on from that is well do you do that from the inside out or do you do that from the outside in you know I I really long since lost type of any30/116
kind of political or or can that I coming in to be able to to be able to save up like system that is so openly and sire blatantly corrupt to its very cool %HESITATION I think that at the federal and the state level is a specimen especially apparent %HESITATION I think at the local level is where it's more achievable and moral they did this at least31/116
that is the very least more accountability for the person or politicians or group of people who call themselves the guy %HESITATION there's more accountability at least if they're living in the same area or region up I think we need you know I got go up to the next line of the I mean and then the next lap the onion with state and federal politics like we32/116
have here in Australia and what you guys do that on the stage and everywhere else basically it just becomes sorry muddied about with bureaucracy and red tie that of course is could of course it's ineffective side and then of course as James pointed out there is the whole moral and ethical argument whereas I choose not to support no matter what good will perceive good that the33/116
federal up that the state might have I'm in in the minds of the public the inherent evil in the inherent damage and misery that comes from comes from supporting this diet is to something that are long since abandoned sigh %HESITATION but of course if I choose to not be a part of that year's trial what happens I get a phone line or I get a call34/116
court tight I get you know money taken off in a fight you know today that some guys in suits will come to my door and it eventually and I take the court sy I'm it's an interesting well I I I personally don't believe in mandatory voting %HESITATION I think I think that it should be up to people to decide if they are going to participate or35/116
not and forcing you to participate a in my view produces a you know potentially a jaundiced outcome %HESITATION James to to your points I I deeply respect what you said and I can understand objecting to the militarism and the imperialism that define our America's exceptional list identity at this time and %HESITATION I routinely apologize to non Americans %HESITATION and so I'll start with Cuban proctor because36/116
%HESITATION and and you know even when I have talked to of the men some of the men who have been released from Guantanamo %HESITATION they make a big distinction between %HESITATION hating the American people and hating American leaders who were directly responsible for of their %HESITATION they're being held illegally and inner immoral %HESITATION manner yeah and so you know I I feel a need to try37/116
to separate some of these things if only to avoid going stark raving mad %HESITATION because honestly when I focus on the military industrial complex and the damage that it continues to do both domestically because we've got bridges falling down and roads that are falling apart and instead of you know we built a big highway in Afghanistan that is no longer controlled by our puppet government %HESITATION38/116
and and so you know there are bees systemic and very serious problems and at a certain point I think as humans we have to look at well what can we impact where can we make a difference how can we shape the way people think of or influence of the ideas that might provoke them toward change and the other piece for me is that while I do39/116
fear and open revolution in the United States because I think it would make things worse I think that the %HESITATION out the gun lobby would would dominate any rewrite of our constitution and I think that the oligarchs of will continue to have outsized influence so it is a a series of Hobson's choices well there there are new %HESITATION you know attractive alternatives but this is the40/116
system that %HESITATION was here when I got here and I'm trying to do my best to move it in a direction that I feel is appropriate but I recognize that there are many honorable people who just throw up their hands and say this is a waste of time %HESITATION it is a totally corrupt system and when you get into the issues of of deep state %HESITATION41/116
and understand that the government we see is not the real government that %HESITATION makes decisions that commits us to wars data you know pursues imperialist adventures %HESITATION at at great cost to %HESITATION too many humans and to the ideals that we value and so you know for me those are the contradictions of the human condition well Peter may I just push back on that I do42/116
not accept your apology because it is not your apology to make I would accept if you know Henry Kissinger went on an apology to our to Cambodia in Chile and all the other million places where he's wreaked havoc around them with the glow Burke and re slaughter in Libya and places like that or all the people who were responsible for that but you are not responsible43/116
for that did you accepting that so totally and taking it so totally into your consciousness that you would feel compelled to apologize to people for what the United States government has done in your name is the problem people of internalized their enslavement to the point where they take personal responsibility for the things that are done for the bike this week this monstrous system that has been44/116
created to rule over them and that is not a healthy way of approaching this issue I think that's really what I want under money news this consciousness that people except by buying into the system by voting by participating in it by waving the flag you know go Bernie goat and go Donald go Hillary may buy into the system and I want to snap people out of45/116
that you are not responsible for the bloodshed that is done in your name if you do not participate in it well now that that's a very good point and I would like to gain frame it's within that within them media umbrella and the responsibility that comes with that and and our own personal biases or personal favoritism coloring the way things are reported and put out there46/116
and this has been one of the main reason our side our website has a state away from any of these candidates since two thousand eight I can tell you this in two thousand eight I really thought that that wrong called the first from the rest of and I'm very open and honest about that but still what I tried to do consciously I try to up not47/116
to have anything on the site death reflected something personal and that personal leave me in anyway so if you go and call true our website you in this whole election stop you want see you know me interviewing people showing that how he is different even though I believe he was one of those people who was truly different now I don't believe that with Sanders not even48/116
the least but still I kept it out there because that was based at personal level and this is one of the things that I wanna make make sure that our website has because we went through the same reasoning but Batman Obama okay this was when Peter people like ray McGovern Dan Ellsberg started attacking us openly saying don't tell people not vote because it's been I don't49/116
even know who was the pastor who was going against Obama was that McCain was who was it Romney I'm looking into account solid with little exactly and guess what got someone worse than bush you know and nobody thought that was people who supported Obama what Obama Sandeep different given these sound like bush I don't think in any way he sounded like bush did you talk about50/116
protection for whistle blowers he has already broken record as the worst president when it comes to whistle blowers he's the one who authorizes the thou drone assassination extrajudicial killings so what Obama as he ended its sad and got here for you know had nothing to do with the person because I am I don't believe that is going to be in my new book we defend that51/116
someone like Sanders but what happens is if our personal leniency ends up bringing guest war favorable to Sanders and bashed we are playing the same game and I want to make sure that use blood carries the same integrity I am not be are not going to advertise for the systems man and believe me or not no matter what the wards every single one I see out52/116
there they are the systems man and woman I don't see any difference and I do not want that tone I do not want that that kind of leniency toward any of these people Daniel and I do the same thing but Libertarian Party whoever it is I don't even know his name we don't do that because that we are outside the system we have taken pride of53/116
being outside the system that's the reason we are different that's the reason we have been putting the facts whether it was bush or his Obama or tomorrow is going to be trump or Hillary or Sanders eat doesn't matter we still gonna be that outside the system because of that principles to be whole and so that's why I would like to frame it within journalism because no54/116
if they were to ask me personally there is no difference there will be no difference because if that's what we believe all we have to do is look at two thousand eight and see what people said about Obama that media did them like Obama he was outside the system that was actually part of the whole game a lot of it is about to reverse psychology people55/116
want to have on their dog so heat is showing standards another guy the system's dies underdog is a good thing is a positive thing that's going to gain support these are all trickery that the system has been playing and they have been winning I don't know why maybe it's the willingness of conscious willingness people wanna keep falling for the same thing over and over again at56/116
some point you would think you would kind of stop and say what are we doing the same thing and and doing whatever it is Sanders or whoever's supposedly independent is a game repeating the same thing you know people said Ross Perot was independent really was the alright who wants to go next Brock you have a comment yes sure I'm I think it's one of got back57/116
to what some James says to format the responsibility that that that the vita has when they do choose to go into the election very so use that use the the yeah the diabolic machine I think that it's a strange magic trick are I ritualistic magic trick that happens is that there there is a responsibility to I especially here in Australia on us to fight but as