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Title: Alternative to What? The BFP Roundtable Dissects the "Alternative" Media
Published: 2014-01-12
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKBHD8ia1Lk
Title: Alternative to What? The BFP Roundtable Dissects the "Alternative" Media
Published: 2014-01-12
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKBHD8ia1Lk
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so it's just like okay let's just have a real calm real coffee and no censorship thanks for joining us today for the boiling frogs round table I'm Peter B. Collins I'm based in San Francisco I host podcasts at Peter B. Collins dot com and contribute the weekly processing distortion podcast here at boiling frogs and of course I'm co host with Sibel Edmonds of the on going2/146
boiling frogs podcast series also with us is James Corbett the host of the eye opener video series here at boiling frogs and also of course of the Corbett report we're joined as well by Guillermo menace who is the proprietor of traces of reality dot com and he produces the weekly de manufacturing consent podcast Europe boiling frocks nice to see you again no and our publisher and3/146
the author of a very powerful book god classified woman is Sibel Edmonds so bill it's great to be with everybody today and that you're going to lay out the premise for our conversation please go ahead okay thank you and likewise ne Peter this is going to be fine I guess having fun is really important one of the main assumption out there among most people is when4/146
we are a kind of moving away from this mainstream media model which has been basically are losing its reputation most people have %HESITATION come to the conclusion that really it can't get the facts from that mainstream media and of course with the bird off the internet and the beginning of the internet era we have been seeing more and more people turning to what we call the5/146
out alternative %HESITATION mediums for news and information however one general assumption is that while we are doing this %HESITATION while the dynamic is shifting and changing E. establishment including the mainstream media remains static meaning they are going to be doing what they have been doing and the more and more the alternative %HESITATION news channels are happy message or are taking over and it's not correct because6/146
this would be assuming that %HESITATION or based on the assumption that this Nablus misfits and does nothing because they are changing as well and they are also a comedy these changes meaning they are seen the alternative outlets as one way put out missile misinformation and propaganda and we must not forget this very important fact because we should always put ourselves in the position of our %HESITATION7/146
the here in this case and cognizance able what what date you would day just do nothing and still continue with the CNN and BBC and the fox news or are there other things and methods they will be utilizing in order to overcome this change and also accommodate these changes that have been occurring bout with the Berghof love the internet and these so called alternative channels well8/146
it's very interesting Sibel because there are a lot of things rolled up in that first of all one of the things I would point out is that the so called alternative media websites put out a lot of information did this just re channeled from the corporate media outlets and so there's relatively little original reporting there is commentary that is often based on mainstream media reporting and9/146
official government sources and so the alternative media faces some of the same issues as real journalism that is now rarely practised in the corporate media and that is the balance the trade off that you have to me to %HESITATION risk losing access to sources when you do hard hitting reporting that is critical of those sources so that's one of the issues that I think is common10/146
to both old media and new meat but I think what you're driving at is that we have alternative media outlets that either self censor by not investing in critical investigative reporting and then pull punches when bloggers or independent reporters bring them big stories and let me offer you an example of we recently in my processing distortion podcast interviewed investigative reporter Peter burned be why are in11/146
E. and he has he's a science writer but in the last five years he has spent a lot of time investigating senator Dianne Feinstein and the business interests of her husband Richard long and his reporting does not get picked up by the corporate media in this case the LA times or the San Francisco Chronicle the two major papers in the state of California and burn is12/146
a solid guy %HESITATION I've reviewed his work very carefully he uses %HESITATION solid public sources for the information that he publishes and yet his original investigation of Feinstein was funded by the nation institute which is part of the nation magazine they underwrote the initial investigation he did and then they refused to run his story they spiked and %HESITATION from what I'm told the decision was made13/146
by Katrina vanden Heuvel herself and so we have the old line progressive media like the nation that will end and what I describe it is is coloring inside the lines they're given %HESITATION a stencil and some crayons and they make sure that that they create their own original art item but it's all inside the predetermined boundaries and so we see a lot of that recycle with14/146
some commentary added and presented as alternative news when in fact it is carefully controlled inside the defined lines and really parallels the corporate media that were told it is an alternative to well if I can just a jump on the back of that I think you're exactly right in that analysis and that brings us right back to what I was discovering the eye opener report from15/146
this week I talking about Glenn Greenwald's response to critics of first look media and died there the criticism of up here a media arts funding of that and in his response he says well I mean salon and and democracy now and things like this are funded by big got rich funders do you think that they've pulled pull punches in their reporting because of that fact and16/146
course the obvious answer is yes yes I do think that I think that they are controlled to a large extent and we've covered this song on the eye opener in boiling frog posts for a long time talking about foundation funding and how that influences these so called alternative media outlets that that really do wear the mask of alternative media when in fact there on th there's17/146
something I think it's a of a fundamentally different nature they're still part of the establishment there to Staten where more covert about it or they they look more authentic as it were but %HESITATION but I'll go even one step further than that I think that there's I'm not just that type of under the table sort of %HESITATION unspoken influence I think there can be direct influence18/146
over this and I'm just to back up that conspiracy theory why don't we turn to Xperia a paper called conspiracy theories written by %HESITATION none other than Cass Sunstein on who is of course been part of the White House administration and dive back in two thousand eight so I'm during his tenure at Harvard he wrote a paper called conspiracy theories he co wrote it with Adrian19/146
Vermeule also Harvard Law School and they wrote about the need for cognitive infiltration of conspiracy theorist groups in order to you and to repair their crippled epistemology is to put it in the %HESITATION though gobbledygook academic speak that he puts it in by which they mean I'm literally to go in and to these types of conspiracy theory communities that are popping up online and start in20/146
so at inserting the the kind of the official government word on on these things as if it were coming from members of the public when in fact and that the idea that with was presented in this paper was that it would be obviously sourcing to those government sources so I mean this is something that's been written about and talked about openly by members of the Obama21/146
administration not when he was a member of the Obama administration but still and this is something that's been talked about before and I think this is far and away the most insidious idea out there because of course not only can the government come in to correct the crippled epistemology is a conspiracy theorist but they can be in the exact same manner insert whatever propaganda they want22/146
into the alternative media through this method and we know this is why for example the DHS and of the FBI in these other agencies are so interested in investing money and time and %HESITATION and resources into fly creating for example fake I'm social media profiles that they use to insert their own messages into this social media mix and Twitter and Facebook and things like that which23/146
again we know it has been going on and unfortunately I don't have the documentation in front of me but I've done global research the view of any reports on that before so I to me this is what I think is is a particularly disturbing and %HESITATION well I have more to say on that but I'll throw it out over to Guillermo to see what he has24/146
to say now the measly different things that you guys have mentioned %HESITATION we could expand on but %HESITATION yet sock puppets that was really interesting Jan's I don't remember the company that was doing this but I think it might balance here even which brings us back into the hole PayPal media our stuff another though really crazy connection that has not yet means yet to be explained25/146
but I'm going back to how we sort of the conversation about how you know putting ourselves in the position of thinking about in what way the establishment will begin to corrupt the alternative media or use it to their advantage and I don't think we have to even imagine much that's already happening rights is something else we we see happening already %HESITATION you know we see for26/146
example Amazons are just as I was buying the Washington post and then actively pursuing and and and receiving %HESITATION CI contracts I guess there's no conflict of interest there either right if it and then of course you mention first look media mightily kudos on that I open report that is really good and that within the year within the report you also I'll play a video short27/146
clip of the interview that Sir Alex o'brien provided to a German outlet I don't know the name but sell over at the at the conference they were at that discussing on these issues and she mentioned something about that was very interesting to to your point Peter about %HESITATION the media existing like you know the alternative media the old media the mainstream got everyone call it all28/146
existing within an ecosystem as she as she put it an excellent sense he was a uses you describe you know that that there's a there's a place for those %HESITATION out there who do get that sort of funding I guess because they have the resources to do a sort of work that you describe to go in and get that primary source material that we can then29/146
look at and comments on and I sacked and that and see if this is you know legit or not what gender what have you arm there's a place for that but we what happens when the alternatives that are in place now that do you have a place in this ecosystem to look at things like that and examined them on our own what happens when they start30/146
to go away what happens when they start being bought out by these gigantic corporations like Amazon like well maybe our network and so forth and so that is a concern %HESITATION as you mentioned you know the the dinosaur media is beginning to to die out quite literally their audience willful begin to die out %HESITATION eventually insert the new generations today I mean their paper of record31/146
isn't the New York times it's Facebook and Twitter and you two out of you guys heard the expression but if it's not on you tube it didn't happen right that so yeah and of course this is what we on you tube as well so but what happens when we talk about this also James what happens when a big company like Google comes and and now buys32/146
out that sphere that that place that we have this we had a much more free dialogue much more free exchange of ideas on you tube about you know five or five years ago that's against the change that shifting now of Facebook has shifted Twitter is changing their policies these things that we rely on to exchange in these ideas on the internet are changing and shifting her33/146
becoming centralized and and and you know so it's a concern it's already happening so now what we do about that I think is the larger question as we talked about before I do hope that new alternatives %HESITATION spring up alternatives to the alternatives because often weeks we talk about alternatives I often think alternative to what okay you're independent independent of what you know it really is34/146
one of things that bothered me about %HESITATION Greenwald's comments recently and the first look media press release that was %HESITATION the came out a few days ago we go whatever was %HESITATION they stress the word independent we're gonna be in independence media organization and I and I'm here thinking what independent of what okay a your independent of tech Turner your independent of Rupert Murdoch maybe but35/146
you're completely a wholly dependent on Pierre Omidyar and a media our network so independent of what is my question well and and I think that raises an important issue %HESITATION about you know trying to navigate the minefield of media bias and almost any outlet you go to including my own %HESITATION reflects the bias of the people who produce it the critical part is disclosure to the36/146
viewer reader listener %HESITATION about what their interests are and and you know what the presenters biases are and to me that's a critical part in enabling a smart end user up of media products if you will %HESITATION to decide for themselves what they believe who's credible and and you know what sources they want to build their own opinions on Sibel I want to get your take37/146
on this but just on that very noted just want to throw in I'm %HESITATION it that that brings up an interesting little example of this that came up recently that I've been covering on Fukushima update dot com because obviously I'm looking at all the information about Fukushima and I see the stories pop up from time to time and basically the the the rule of thumb is38/146
that the more sensational the headline in the more everyone is going to die and that the faster the story will spread around the world regardless of of how true it is I mean it's the old Mark Twain quote quote about that the other than a lie spreading halfway around the world before the truth even has its shoes on and it's it's really true especially in this39/146
atmosphere where everyone is quite concerned and I think justifiably so concerned about what's happening in Fukushima and on that note just this past dot past month there was a story about Thompson steam that was coming from the %HESITATION reactor three building that was unexplained and this was picked up by Turner radio network and turned into this story about how this radioactive plume was going to kill40/146
everyone in America and that got a lot of play throughout the alternative media because it was a sensational headline and die you know they're covering up the truth which we know they are making their covering up various pieces of that the truth about Fukushima so it seemed plausible enough in a good spread all over the place but when you start to look into the reactor three41/146
steam story you find out well it's been steaming off and on for at least the last six or seven months so this is not a new phenomenon at all and %HESITATION and %HESITATION that was of course not noted all in that report so so again I think it's exceptionally important to be looking at the sources of this because again it can be so easy for it42/146
for example an FBI informant misinformation campaign to start spreading insane crazy our theories as well about what's happening which isn't just another way of %HESITATION of %HESITATION a turd in the punch bowl S. everything you know is dropping a dropping one in so no one wants to drink from that alternative media fountain and that can be an extremely effective unfortunately way of poisoning the well for43/146
everyone else well one element that out we should not leave out has to do with the psychology all the masses and again the sound leash man is very well aware of this and %HESITATION I know Peter mentioned this thing off disclosing our sources and remaining true and being an alternative but also you establishment looks at what people really want and this is something that I have44/146
been ignoring I know all of us have been ignoring this is why you have them become this or E. make your websites and they keep talking about all meet yards %HESITATION you news organization a VR scene that he's actually following this same footsteps of Huffington Arianna Huffington the Huffington post this morning I saw the headline it's that he hired that one of the top entertainment news45/146
editors because that's how hopping to decided she first started by people coming and posting the editorials it for people alternative you had all these different editorials different point of view but then before you know they started adding all the needed or demand that aliments meaning seem Kardashian started popping up there and Justin Bieber started popping up there and before you knew it ended up being seventy46/146
five percent of the site meaning gold as sexy stocks and there gossipy stuff and it worked she sold the two AOL hold that money and the same thing is pretty obvious we gonna be seeing that this only your network well the excess something does about this that Richmond but also it should tell us something about the mass population and that is something that we have to47/146
look into I'm not always able this is what the alternatives to the pseudo alternatives and this is what this that Richmond does why is it that people are looking for that ME why do they want to see Kardashian's to push up there I mean I I I don't understand that because what I must be among those very minute irate minority because I don't like this is48/146
what people want they want to see the Harsco popping up and they want to see Kardashian I'm so if that's the case week is the case because we are seeing it and that is the market research think this is what the market ones and therefore we are giving the market people what they want yeah we are dealing with the other side of this element and that49/146
is people and why is this the case the need for that entertainment than the sport and the sexiness and their hairy knows that whatever you wanna call it and I think there's some pieces of news out there is good as long as sensationalize you know the way that we wall has been sensationalizing this thing and and the when the psychology is such really US should should50/146
our I mean is does that make sense to just blamed establishment and say well this is what they are giving versus looking at the other side and say well this is what people are demanding and then he tried to get to the bottom of that and the Rudolph this this email as I call it even as you know that that that the roof beam bonus well51/146
to mash up a quote originally attributed to PT Barnum you can fool some of the people all of the time and that's enough to get elected yeah yeah so we we do have %HESITATION as part of the political process well hold structure where we take corporate and a corporate money and money from wealthy special interests and individuals we found all that into political messaging that panders52/146
to specific voter groups that are expected to turn out and support that candidate and then when you look at it in the bigger picture of our culture in our media of one of my pet theories is that advanced market research is what we can blame for the spate of reality television shows the %HESITATION though the way the Cardassians have been turned into something we're supposed to53/146
care about and I agree with you Sibel I when I'm at the check stand I I I look at these magazines and the stories and I just say why should I care who are all these people are who populate people magazine and us and all of their their copycats and and you know this is mass distraction and that is one of the things that works in54/146
favor of propagandists and let me contrast the mania with the launch of a new season of American idol and there are lots of people who would turn this into a weekly family %HESITATION event and they follow it like it's really important and if there is any issue about the credibility of the voting for who the next American idol winner will be these people get up in55/146
arms but Florida two thousand Ohio two thousand four they couldn't have cared less because you only it wasn't their thing and this level of distraction I'll just give you one example enables the Obama administration to continue to fumble the policy in Afghanistan even with the criticism that's now surfaced from former defense secretary gates nobody cares the did there is no part of the U. S. electorate56/146
dead is rallying around and putting any pressure on anybody to do anything about Afghanistan whether it's to put more troops there which would be crazy or to pull out our troops tomorrow which would be the most intelligent thing we could do and so that the market research gives both the people who operate the media and the people who run the government Hughes on how to continue57/146
to buffalo the American people and we sit back and and gorge ourselves on the couch Huff and and basically just passively accepted yeah I completely agree with both of you and %HESITATION their minds me of something I want I watched awhile back if it was a learned liberty video that I've referenced a couple tunnel attends on my show because I I thought it really good point