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Title: Video Games & The Military Entertainment Complex
Published: 2017-01-28
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZBiFenoLnc
Title: Video Games & The Military Entertainment Complex
Published: 2017-01-28
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZBiFenoLnc
1/87
I everyone I'm Spiro with news but dot com today we're going to be discussing a nearly one hundred billion dollar a year industry that affects one point eight billion people around the world of all age groups genders race you name it that industry is the video game industry specifically we're going to be looking at a news but exclusive article titled Nick Robinson on video games and2/87
the military entertainment complex now joining me is the author of this news but exclusive article Eric moshing and Nick Robinson who is an associate professor in politics and International Studies in video games research at the university of Leeds in the UK I'm Mister Robinson can you tell us a little bit about your research and what is focused on and why it's important yeah sure I'm Percy3/87
thanks very much for having me on really appreciates it I thanks also to all right for the excellent job you did in looking into my stuff I've been looking really a couple things I'm there too big issues I'm concerned at the first one is how is it that video games themselves opportunities them and how important other relationships in the games industry house with the military I'm4/87
not many your listeners might not be familiar with our relationship but it is a very long standing in long I goes back all my so the origins of the gaming industry itself right back to the nineteen seventies when people start making arcade cabinets they very quickly got into my symbiotic relationship with the military with products I'm caught my kids from sight your for exams who immediately5/87
going out from working for the military and I coming back into the games industry so this is a long standing relationship so that I'm really interested in related to the eye is is how they always Militari messages kind of resonate with the public does he actually Massa if a member of the public is playing games which essentially celebrating wool I'm on the third strand of it6/87
he's more of a kind of a slightly east Terrick I spoke to a theoretical series of questions in other words do you gains provide different ways for us to think politically I'm not asking Portrush needs nationals I'm studies for example on one of the arguments I've looked into these weather games health costs to actually interrogate the foundations of American exception is foreign policy in you an7/87
exciting Weiss are I would have to say I mean a lot of us are familiar with the relationship between Hollywood and the military industrial complex not like known as the military entertainment complex %HESITATION they often a work together they have this close relationship to up push maybe certain perspectives are viewpoints on war up can you tell us a little bit more about the relationship between the8/87
military industrial complex in the gaming world why would the military wanna spend time and resources on video game development well it's interesting thing I mean one of the things is really about the military entertainment complex in Hollywood is quite often it's actually concealed from the public so in other words you get a journalist for example and often is journalist to expose these relationships I'm but it's9/87
unusual for the industry to celebrate now what's really fantastically interesting and quite different about the games industry is they normally seek to work with a minute treats him like that games more authentic and I actively celebrate out pop the marketing campaign so if you look for example at the college GC games or that the recent medal of honor repeated franchise or battlefield all of those games10/87
these massive series apply by millions millions of people every year all of them I really active collaboration of military advisors and consultants bullseye that might do the tacit support the military for example in the usage of technology so you got to fly an attack helicopter for example drive around and in a tank and sold a site with an old nice things are you know that you're11/87
not able to do that because the military acquiescence in you using that technology is in these guides so authenticity which is crucial to the gaming industry come specifically out of those relationships among is quite different in terms of the white ex publicly celebrates it compared to the film industry which also cited like in the superhero film that always might very well have been a tree but12/87
seldom east not celebrates in quite the same wide now I heard you have been writing a series of articles that I've been very interesting that have been enjoying myself now how does this article tying to your previous stellar work that you've accomplished with professor Publius say in the P. you did on Nevada I think one of the things that I but I want to contribute to13/87
the website and to media in general is just to try to get a different variety of things that are very dominant in our culture I mean we had movie industry with Vincent gains we have our drones in casinos we have our gambling we have risk taking we have algorithms we have just the way the people like to get a thrill when they get off of work14/87
they they enjoyed the military side of things because we don't often get to be in an exciting environment where our life is at risk and we can do that in a simulated environment so that's that's what kind of brought me to mark how how military are recruiting campaigns are are carried out which was with Susan T. Jackson who is or was a member of the Armed15/87
militarization two point oh project for the Stockholm research just to add on Nick Robinson was recommended by her is where it gets into video games and other industry which is very much tied with the movie industry and also entertainment in general men men and women we we enjoy warm and that's what we do is I want to get the perspective from someone who knows so much16/87
about different games different sides of games how therefore war or if there even are active this stick kind of games where they're against war where you have so many choices your decisions are not just to kill someone there also to apprehend them or to negotiate or even to avoid conflict so that's a that's word that's where this article came and well it's a it's a great17/87
article it's did really dives deep into ethical questions of these games site how some of moral choices are removed throughout some of the games and I really find it interesting how the military industrial complex is partnering up with the gaming industry there has been a long debate about the violence in video games and Eric you mentioned how you can simulate of that violence a doctor Robinson18/87
can you tell me up whether there is any correlation between violence in video games and violent behavior can I just make a quick comment about the giants I power does well onsite question because it's really interesting the the Piper that you you're talking about the one on the bottom and joins the other thing I think that that is quite striking actually is that trying to becoming19/87
almost ubiquitous now in our lives and I think what's really interesting is when the military I'm utilization of drawings and and you mentioned are cannot piece about why they become condoms sold normalizes call of Nevada's local gambling culture but the other thing I think is quite striking so trying to become recreation lawsuits on clean games like one of the things that's really cool about games is20/87
that they might dangerous and deadly technologies a tracksuit exciting now in a great number of games can temperate games recently the cold GT series in particular across that include warfare for example black ops I need beating the kills sighing I have recent gang kills I shudder so use a dryer the player easier actually involved in scenarios where they get to play with the tried and Cartwright21/87
themselves clean I surgical killing now I think it's really quite interesting how the big gaming industry itself is by implication therefore directly into related to conversation we're having publicly right across the piece about how clean and surgical imprecise Strine strikes actually all what we know because he's a dry instruction very lead to massive collateral damage to all kinds of fun problems with the kill China arrested22/87
about how how yet confident we can pay actually he's he's being assassinated and yeah in video games or a fire arm complex at sea is completely and utterly removed so you get control of the driving is absolutely clear who you're killing the decisions and that are incorrect I'm that this strike is always precise I like do you think there's something quite striking about how the discourses23/87
that come out drives more generally are being re appropriated in the gaming industry and that is quite different for example to the film recent film I am the sky which I don't know if you've seen it with Helen Mirren minutes without my diplomacy directly looks out the complexities of drugs I'm actually looks how difficult life ethical questions also that they're well Hollywood for example he's doing24/87
something quite challenging you know to expose some of these problems similarly in Hong lands you know the American child in video games knowledge eyes ethical complexities I have a pimple bat are in the game spice not think body is extremely important apart from in some critical games I am by by a media all house types this thing about the video games and violence question is it's25/87
being it's a source of qualified striations may from Tokyo mystery this conversation because very very quickly and frequently which one of the questions I get asked about when the reality is there's been a few the house spade a huge amount of research don predominantly from within the psychological fails I'm what is typically called the axes media perspective right which looks put people in the bar trees26/87
task so I'm reaches the conclusion much like he's done throughout history psychological work that video games all problematic I am not the overwhelming conclusion but they're a major and serious methodological problems with a loss not research so I'm I'm highly skeptical offer I'm on the research has been done which actually looks at users from the more a sociological cultural studies kinda perspective of which says very27/87
little research in relation in relative terms reaches much much different conclusions in other words if you're predisposed to violence you're more likely a tight violent stimuli I'm good diet it reaches the conclusion that the party set you self actually has all kinds of physiological consequences for how people respond to the stimulus is it also rituals very basic and I macro level conclusions which is that the28/87
rise of violent games has coincided with the decline in large numbers of indicates that violence for example in the United States so at a macro level the correlations are not clear and a lot of the the the more I was saying you aren't sophisticates researcher looks at media practice people's everyday lives experiences actually Dawson hold up cari strike make dot said one thing I do you29/87
think is really really important here on which we know nothing about is the role of video games potentially in desensitizing us not so much to Collins bits you opinions that we my house of all the people so if we take something like Joseph nice work on soft power and we ostraca simple question why did Japan promote the Tokyo Olympics with a direct association between the prime30/87
minister and Marriott right dot we ought one argument will be well Japanese is seen as cool unless he knows and I know my culture and they seen as Mario and so on the social now if that's the case then one real genuine thing that we all ought to be looking out she's never been done systematically is actually whether we are receiving dangerous and damaging messages about31/87
places like the Middle East you all week ever do in video games he's killed people in the Middle East so a lot well for you market it will cause a representation you never get mean games the video games I I know that they have a rating system similar to how movies have a rating system now what would you say would be like the void main target32/87
for some of these violent games like the the age groups and should parents be concerned if their kids are playing %HESITATION in wargames for for hours and hours a day I can look at sea issue you share all that I'm the one he's does the writing system work second question is should you be concerned paper applying age inappropriate content one of the things actually perhaps counterintuitive33/87
you'll surprisingly state that in America every here here's how double for years now but they too are a very large sky or national I'm secret shopper survey Senshi the Consumer Reports Americans %HESITATION I want my surveys have shown is over time the mice and vigilant industry you're all industries in terms of age appropriate content is the video game industry so it's easy it's a bomb review34/87
take your clothes off on the sites you underwrite or why do you date in a supply guy so in that sense the industry's Archie doing a pretty good job most people of knowledge they understand the right things I'm most people in the U. S. and indeed in Europe I'm yeah recitals at doing that backs this the slippery bed of course comes parents now I'm not going35/87
to get in the business of telling parents what to do but it also seems to me an interesting paradox that in spite of the knowledge that we do know that huge numbers of people are playing games below the H. right saying I suspects that bar could baby a problem actually and I I my suspicion is that it's not willful negligence on behalf of parents I think36/87
the difficulties is generational on a lot of parents simply just don't buy games where is that kids bimbo operate them I'm quite unusual I'm forty six years of age of important games since I was about twelve I mean most people of my age annul but not window into games that I you know I mean the mass penetration this media took off with PlayStation and I'm I'm37/87
not conduct generation release weather was a huge step changing video gaming on its stock generation novel the kids to tomorrow's you are really awesome so I think people should be concerned not just because the cost because the other point I made a box you're a fine playing wohl I have no contextual conceptual understanding of who won killing then maybe that is a problem actually it's the38/87
first sustained experience I get of another place like Brazil is just of loyalist Nevada's which I'm you know rampaging through and killing people and maybe the is actually quite damaging series of messages I'm das the thing that would concern me not the violence actually goodies this potential but these representations might get internalizing pliers NYC I'm not fully able to deconstruct because they're not emotionally sophisticated yet39/87
to make those kinds of connections and I think those points could be really quite serious actually well no doubt that the young people it was no secret are a highly %HESITATION suggested will you know very easy to influence and to shape and mold their minds and %HESITATION it's it's concerning to me to know that the military industrial complex is working so closely with the gaming industry40/87
with Hollywood is %HESITATION shaping people's perception of of reality to promote %HESITATION you know it's a western agenda now I'd like to get both of your takes starting with Eric on the future of gaming and where you see it going is with things like virtual reality becoming more and more a prominent the technology development is expanding greatly the future of gaming is going to be interesting41/87
because we have I think there was something recently where someone invented a holographic map a representation of a map and it was three D. so I think something very immersive maybe a full room is an actual game could be could be on the horizon and then you get a lot of that kind of a lot of consequences too because there could be physical reactions to things42/87
that don't actually happen in reality so we can be there could be injuries related to futuristic games or there was a book called the reality but it was a part of a teenage series called the Pendragon series and there was this whole there was an entire society that was actually plugged into this game where these games so we could have very sterilized people laying on tables43/87
experiencing games your virtual reality goggles getting fed through a tube I mean in a couple hundred years or so and that could be very affecting to a society where you have people that don't get it activity anymore physically we might see a reduction in muscular muscular are developments for young people young adults which could be problematic because there's a lot of criticism towards you know games44/87
that they keep kids inside inside of but out of their houses their their place of residence for long periods of time are there was a parody on the South Park series where there was a war a world of Warcraft player and he was drastically obese and it was supposed to be a very humorous take on on video games are gone wrong or maybe excessive gameplay but45/87
the bottom line is their games are fun and there is sometimes they're going to educate yourself about our reaction time from reflexes and also how you respond to stress situations even if there are real so I think futuristic middle military real gains in particular are going to help troops in any country to be to be much more I wore ready to be able to cope with46/87
different situations because we weren't weren't age of a full spectrum or your where we can responsible and air and even cyber threats simultaneously so this is going to be a much more advanced won't we're seeing now and with stuff like quantum computing which I don't understand all I think it's gonna be very complex and probably holographic not not looking at a screen more like being surrounded47/87
and you can feel it taste touch smell everything three or four quick comments not keep them all quick aside I think Eric's capital of really interesting points I betcha reality star and Matt yet where the right at the beginning of this process where the beginning of in some cities technological capacity that you know the whole issue about whether OP he sees a fast enough what Barack48/87
right off PlayStations and Russ that's got to walk right but we're also at the very beginning of its emotional consequences and the monument the industry days armed babbling in this little but you know people like a horror game for example and it makes me physically sick because I'm so frightened he's got a good thing all in all a nice unethical immoral series of questions and I49/87
don't know what the ounces out so you dont but obviously with very all you'd expect the next night beyond seeing right is smiling I am and we know how powerful sense of smell is for example you are county matching people want to try war game where you could smell burning slash but doc does coins of sense you know why you get a whole sense you and50/87
experience could easily be ready industry starts to galvanize a real challenge because we ourselves get motion sick right reply via the mind when not we on on no ourselves why it very effectively the second try and I think it's really cool is ubiquitous gaming and I am mobile gaming is absolutely incredible in terms of describing but he's also incredibly intense these consequences because nowadays people gonna51/87
stop five minutes around the station and they will be gaming often and I think the way which gaming Facebook usage Pfeiffer message of this kind of technology but just how valued our allies is extremely important is completely changing the white even saw Westbury screen centric now nothing not something that we should really be interested in keeping an eye while they that's the third thing I think52/87
is learning armed you touched on Eric I think brought the video games industry has got supply and will play an increasingly important role I think in education training and learning formally a lot of industries in all the rightful front of this the minute treating using game based learning trying purposes but video games are gonna have to spread into a high school education you know that that53/87
being your call block these these technologies our classrooms for much longer because kids applying rights insane not to unleash that you see I wasn't in the educational sphere and the final thing in this is my hope my overwhelming how and %HESITATION is that video games got accepted I salute you it's about four blocks I am too long I think we've been defending games I'm on the54/87
basis of that trivial frivolous unimportant things like we don't do that was so you know they're frivolous films but we accept film as a colleague artistic medium I think the sooner we can start accepting games in the same way that we can have a different kind of series of conversations about you know high school kids should be like do remember literature and film and games as55/87
part of their critical literacy when he might got step I will be a very happy man up absolutely %HESITATION you know you both brought up the point of education in in gaming and how that could be a very important %HESITATION development in the gaming world as it is a huge industry almost two billion people are gaming around the world yeah but with all the technological advancements56/87
that could be used for good in the world we see many times these advancements being used to do harm and and promote war %HESITATION with all the online gaming where people can interactively test their skills against each other from other people around the world do we see the potential in the future I know this is a hypothetical question or is it of the military actually maybe57/87
doing recruitment in the future for some of the top level gamers well there was an airforce commercial I believe it was sometime in two thousand eight and it's probably one of the reasons why I joined the airforce that was a commercial where there was a there was a boy and he was he was hacking on the computer he was playing a game and %HESITATION a police