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Title: The Behind the Scenes Battle for the Balkans: West vs. East
Published: 2016-08-30
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a35P_dBPfEQ
Title: The Behind the Scenes Battle for the Balkans: West vs. East
Published: 2016-08-30
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a35P_dBPfEQ
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everyone's spirit with news but today I'm joined with Sibel Edmonds who is the founder editor and publisher of news but also join with professor Philip go watch a bitch who is news but senior analyst for Russia in the Balkans he is a montenegran geopolitical author university professor in the chairman of the movement for neutrality in Montenegro I welcome you both Philip you just read arrived back2/122
stateside from a trip to the Balkans how was your trip %HESITATION yes I has bureau of my trip was very good %HESITATION however this situation in the Balkans politically and economically speaking is not good %HESITATION what's happening the Balkans is that there is a lot of our public dissatisfaction where both domestic and foreign agenda that the political elites are putting forward our and also we we3/122
have we are seeing we are seeing the presence or some %HESITATION I knew geopolitical actors %HESITATION they become stronger I recently such as Russia and China and %HESITATION and the reason that those new fairly new geopolitical actors that these since the end of the Cold War are able to gain more and more influence is that the western %HESITATION neo liberal economic policies have failed are essentially4/122
these policies have destroyed people's livelihoods the emphasis is on private these days and not meant to walk on austerity measures I had had destroyed the education and health systems in these countries our big because from the very beginning this transformation with ideological it was not based on the situation and conditions on the ground in other words the I. math and the World Bank how long did5/122
cool ideologically restate the Balkans in accordance where certain neo liberal principles in this circumstance this was trying to to force the early on to practice and this is always %HESITATION tragic it always leads to very tragic consequences we have seen that in the Soviet Union when communist ideology was forced upon people neo liberalism is just the same it's an ideology to if the conceptual scheme are6/122
that that that that try to fit certain principles so you don't do what what people have on the ground and it has not worked out in the Balkans this is why this is why that that the U. S. and you are our influence in the Balkans these is declining however that the problem is that they will not give up so easily they have infiltrated the elites7/122
in the Balkans so I'll be anything on the side of the th faith Bailey project and the people I guess that's all we are seeing are a local political is that really the %HESITATION happen in the Balkans and I think the situation is going to get even even worse so what I bring from the Balkans is if if not a lot of hope that in the8/122
coming years %HESITATION this region is going to be peaceful that's very interesting and it's very timely that the points you just brought up %HESITATION Philip because while you were away so much started happening in Turkey and %HESITATION we had the failed attempts at ku and then afterwards we have been witnessing this polarization %HESITATION in terms of the public opinion shifting rapidly I have to say it's9/122
almost shifted of basically say enough is enough with NATO of course we are seeing with the current government and all the talks and even semi steps towards %HESITATION aligning get a tricky more with Russia and with the east %HESITATION then down the west basically the sentiment is you know with friends and allies like this like NATO and U. S. who needs an enemy and and and10/122
I would say very conservatively close to eighty eighty five percent of the public opinion eternity is we do not want to align ourselves with the west with NATO enough is enough because Turkey went through a similar %HESITATION stages even though they were not part of the Soviet bloc but especially since up early nineteen eighties with I MF and World Bank and all that demands placed on11/122
Turkey to change both culturally and economically in order to be accepted to you which they still haven't and now they are at this point saying heck would if you don't want to be part of the you I mean is that it doesn't look that great from from where we are at and we are looking into this and and and the same thing with NATO and dealt12/122
with that public sentiment that we are seeing more and more vocalizing Cherokee me have lightly mention touched upon the Balkans saying that based on your articles and other great analysis by you and by other scholars that the discontent with NATO is on escalations L. in the Balkans and of course with Greece we have seen a similar kind of moves after Derek economic upheaval there so let's13/122
talk about the public sentiment and and and you mentioned wisely that that the shift the difference the gap between the majority of the people on the ground versus the ruling elite because we are witnessing the same phenomenon in in Turkey we have certain %HESITATION layer of the academics you know and and and the rich while T. businesspeople and elite military are higher level military groups who14/122
are pro NATO and you add and the rest but then then you're looking at the general public opinion you're looking at the vastly different position in regard with %HESITATION that NATO and the U. S. and go and with this shift in the Balkans do you see any pressure similar to what we are seeing and witnessing in Turkey on that government and the elite to say we15/122
need to look eastward and if so how was that developing you know that that that's a big question because you know out there are some countries in the Balkans which are members of NATO %HESITATION Slovenia Croatia Greece and Bulgaria and there are those who are are on the various pad various path to Nate to Montenegro has gone the foreigners however even in Montenegro we are seeing16/122
that this process of joining NATO has stopped and here Derek you can't play are very important role because it's you know in order for a month and they got to become a member of NATO all parliament a member state are all need go have to ratify the protocol with Montenegro and so so Turkish parliament will have to do this do I need they don't do it17/122
then they would they would be able to in fact do so that they have come on to the Russian side because Russia has always been against the expansion of NATO to the Balkans so here is a concrete example dealing with Montenegro where erdo on can show that that he has found you all live in the east I don't think that that will %HESITATION weekend a weekend18/122
followed closely this issue alba of the elite and the public is is is is very very important but I have to say that that the the people still have not found ways %HESITATION to organize up in in progress they leave out in other words they are still up I think pretty much the majority is being manipulated by various political figures who are getting a logistical and19/122
financial support from the west I got it in my articles I talked about that the presence over Asha decreasing presidents don't rush out in the in the Balkans and the way that that that that the Russian government is trying to use that that cool stuff soft power %HESITATION soap bar is the constant developed by unite that they developed by the intelligence community the CI and unite20/122
the faith and the idea is to even when or in our our populations without having to resort to military call our son or any other type of coercion now there were you swayed the hearts and minds by using the product of popular culture in by using the agents of influence in the in the media in the political parties in the NGO community and the in the21/122
academic community and the west has been very successful in this would just look at the lead look at the collapse of the Soviet Union and the role of the rock and roll and coca Cola and blue jeans and the cost so many fly style that that have played the role in that I now rests eyes trying to develop %HESITATION the soft power tools of its own22/122
and and in my article I I talk about that that the power of the Russian Orthodox Church because we have to do you have to take into consideration that most of the people in the Balkans our our our our majority never go to ought to look now of course of people belonging to Catholic religion to Islam but also many orthodox people there are some countries like23/122
they're beyond Montenegro grease and Bulgaria majority don't put a dog then go to the doctor to use it it's got these have up have a lot of power according to public opinion polls in other words if you look at the public opinion polls in these countries you see that light that the politicians and the political parties and the parliament hamlet they let them twenty percent all24/122
support just like your unite that they'd at where the judge looked at the the the orthodox church sometimes it's even more than fifty percent so so you can you can you can bet I'll bet the people will be conducive to the math is that you ought to look charge a is going to be going to is going to present to them and the fact is that25/122
you don't go to church in the Balkans the third beyond our culture and the Greek orthodox church the body Gary on other threads have all consistantly been against me go because they have seen they go and at the forms the western influence influence all of either a %HESITATION points of view and also religions and they eh so what's happening now is that the that the rations26/122
are %HESITATION through these orthodox networks they are trying to help I don't their church and part is connected to your first judge to do a two door are strengthening the anti NATO methods and this method you it's becoming more and more strong because of the support that the orthodox church uses it well this is interesting and I need some enlighten enlightening here because do you think27/122
the Soviet Union %HESITATION %HESITATION era in Eastern Europe and Balkans and in in the in Russia basically religion was you legalize so you didn't have any activities by by the churches the orthodox church or it was underground basically the movement but after five six decades going back you know but the fall of the Soviet Union how did this rebuy will take place because you're looking at28/122
two three generations in the Balkans that grew up on there do you know eight years them and communism we doubt had being that %HESITATION church and the power of the church so how did this revival took place in the Balkans and I guess %HESITATION to a certain degree of course in Russia %HESITATION so quickly even I think weekly since nineteen ninety one for the church of29/122
becoming yeah major player and and we'd gaining what it had lost for all these half a century well this has to do with their reaction to the western neoliberal ideology you know neo liberalism was successful in destroying they control socially them but it was not successful in building and you said don't values and beliefs I know you you cannot live by Neil liberally them because it's30/122
all about making money my need being being a being the most important value in life and that there is no spiritual and moral conference that you can derive from them up from the value hierarchy like that so so what happened was that neo liberalism destroyed it's it's an ideological an Emmy they'd go on patrol %HESITATION socially them and then you you had not thing you had31/122
the vacuum and then the old traditional believes their religious beliefs have come back it it in other words beat people have departed back to what they had before the imposition though spade a spade controls thoughtfully them because they're good it's called ideological because that collapse I think this is to simply not a nod toward neo liberal Islam are a broad data genie out of the out32/122
out of the bottle you know and and if the inflamed the log go extreme religious and nationalist feeling and and passion that led to a lot don't look no problems in the in in the Balkans scene in it and I am not aware you had because you had not just strong pressure from the west going form you also developed a strong reaction against that unite that33/122
if the action and the reaction is one of the basic laws of physics that also can be applied in in hue in human psychology so what that what's happening at this time is that is that you you especially still don have any kind of ideologies that that that could bring all these really just remember that and I just to gather in the Balkans and this could34/122
be a problem in the future you know the one that has to be asked to be found the modus vivendi Armonk I'm I'm different religions in the Balkans because this region is that if if the crossroads don't three religions Nick kept only through them orthodoxy anything allow and and if we look at them review of our own periods in the past we we see that there35/122
were periods in the past Wendy's doing really does have quite this did peacefully but there were also appear to go through when they were fighting against each other but they were fighting against each other only one day where you think gave it by the outside forced the the outside forces coming from the west from the British vampire generally and now from unite that they thought we36/122
have that because this geopolitical pull if you're from the west which is divide and conquer you know find different fifth among the people in the Balkans empathize them make make weapons out of them did did the am I think the British secret intelligence everything on departed was officially founded I mean it is the ball of the blade was officially founded and the beginning of the twentieth37/122
century but it operated for centuries before that and they have always had this ball is being in fact they help people can be predicted Turkey against thrash advanced the prickly predicted the alt among them buyer against their ass on them by and this is why it is so important so difficult at this point of time to have actual called Greystone with me ras and Derek you38/122
because every time I sat in their queue fought against each other it was dubbed the brick did this the French and lay it on the Americans who have benefitted if we look at the last two hundred years if we look at let's say the nineteenth century and yeah I want to look good to make a digression you know most most anthologies when they speak about that39/122
did everything issues in the Balkans they forget about historian are and in order to understand that the trash and there you have to understand the historical context so when we talk about grass and Derek we have to take into consideration the context so many wars that they have had in the past but also many appeared so called very soon and I have to mention the one40/122
in particular because if not mentioned at all it because it was it was immediately after the end of World War one corporation between at the time the Soviet Russia and the third your camera out the door they have cooperated quite well which means that that that even though they knew that pretty much are you playing by different religions Turkey and Russia I can work together again41/122
the other side and and when I mentioned a landing that not that the room they had then they need in the way because yeah you know %HESITATION at thirty one there will go to one their queue was on the side of the central powers on the side though Germany and Austria Hungary which you which is that which is the side that lost the war so dirty42/122
in the media boss what moron period was considered an enemy and so was the thought it rasta and do they do I think we are getting a good look at the same to the same point where asci is already considered an enemy by the way and out their keys as well and that's I think would be then there go on Kent can build on this tradition43/122
the post World War one parakeet and develop methods of cooperation I have to say one more thing which is very important for the Balkans if there is a lot of honesty that Turkey if there is something like a fibula water in therapy which I think the western powers are planning the whole Balkans is going to explode but only because they believed York Derek yee and economic44/122
strength of their kids very poor aboard the Balkans and in fact from what I'm hearing is that is that if the thumb extremists from the Balkans from Bosnia and Kosovo who were involved in the coup against their go on in in in in that you know the one from the Balkans who are these people be that people who are employed by NATO I and the and45/122
the you I think there is a thirty three and they're based in the Balkans so so I think at this point them all die and it's very important for Turkey to pres there up what political stability and I think I think many people in the Balkans one that they want their keep to continue economic prosperity to the way has been progress in the last decade and46/122
also to be politically stable Melissa as very good point there Philip and it leads me to this question here how we've recently seen the leaders from the U. S. leaders from Russia and leaders from China all visiting the Balkans so they of course would see that the significance well I mean what do you see coming out of these %HESITATION that definitely what I'm seeing is the47/122
geopolitical shift to the east arm however this shit is not going to be an easy one because because that that that that that the west and yeah I'm talking about the U. S. military in Taos going that agents complex and those donate though they are not going to be are very happy to see this and they'll do everything they can to delay or stop this inevitable48/122
shift to the east and the only way they can delay it or stop it is to create trouble took good to create social unrest and political do you think they grace so they may even be supporting them example I go back even the opposition if some of these Balkan countries in order to create more confusion and more unrest and more thoughts of fragmentation because what the49/122
west and then they'd go are offering the Balkans is it is not a long term G. G. up what long term economic strategy in that another war they cannot afford the investment that the that god these countries need to get back on their feet but the Chinese can and they have been doing this the Chinese have been doing these they are investing in the long term50/122
impressed tractor project they're not interested in ideological re safe being on the Balkans and this is the key the west has always been interested in changing the mine not simply giving them money but also with the money you also need to subscribe to an ideology where is the ease the rest of the most of the Chinese especially they're not interested in that they are interested in51/122
economic build up of these countries because they they they think the global community I think that the more harmonious place bend bend the west and by the way law is is much weaker United in fact without distraction go divide that Kong car it would not be able to have so much power as it does today well there are two things that are actually both are related52/122
that I I want to get your take on Philip one is do you see if I mean currently it looks like there are some attractive bribery that is being thrown before Turkey by the United States and NATO %HESITATION including that Kurdish aliments you know if we do death and give you this much of that and that much of that and if we give you an opportunity53/122
to save face because of course Turkish government president and almost as they face you know he says I demand this and this is from the west or even if they don't get it the west can give them some sort of back you know whitewashed version of what they want and say okay now you can't say face and we gonna give you decide this but let's say54/122
let's say hypothetically Turkey indeed decide decisively to shift towards the east and moves forward with Russia will you see dad as a domino effect in the region meaning a a shift that would be very quickly followed by let's say grease and other nations in the Balkans would it have the domino effect and if so wouldn't this be more of a reason for the U. S. and55/122
NATO too because the social unrest and not let this happen no matter what the prices definitely think bell they are going to try to stop it no matter what if it means creating a civil war in parakeet they'll do it if it means creating a thin warning agrees that Al Gore is therapy out they'll do it in other words they have long stopped and this is56/122
the why this is why the people there have to be very careful in making their political choices you know they think that I am all on very difficult our but very part of political decisions our and so what what what what guy and what the other thing is that this year to the east is inevitable but it may it may cause quite a lot of conflict57/122
in this in this area well the other question which is related and you touched upon it at the beginning and I'm so glad that you did Philip you talked about how ideologies are created on the ground you know through academia and especially through the NGOs and all these %HESITATION issues and all these %HESITATION cool related awakening that that that came out of this whole process this58/122
July fifteen includes the public sentiment in Turkey a gains various western backed alternative media organizations and NGOs in particular NGOs that are associated with it up George Soros for example George Soros has this open society %HESITATION organization immaturity they have actually a major office