ad-free
A marketplace for speech.
82,182 Hours of Speech
help
help
513,821 Transcriptions
add title (free)
add title (free)
407 Sources
add source €0.99
add source €0.99
Search:
Newsbud
Title: The BFP Roundtable Takes on NATO, Russia, Turkey and the "New Cold War"
Published: 2014-04-11
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gaosVLUclw
Title: The BFP Roundtable Takes on NATO, Russia, Turkey and the "New Cold War"
Published: 2014-04-11
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gaosVLUclw
1/142
so it's just like okay let's just have a real calm real coffee and no censorship welcome to this edition of the boiling frog post round table in San Francisco I'm Peter B. Collins and I host the Peter B. Collins podcast and the processing distortion podcast that's available at boiling frogs postdoc com deep in the heart of Texas Guillermo Jimenez joins us once again Iran's de manufacturing2/142
consent and the traces of reality dot com blog Guillermo good to see you good to see you do better and joining us from the eye opener post in Japan we have James Corbett Corbett report dot com and the eye opener video series here at boiling frogs post good to be here Peter thanks and the good looking member of our panel our publisher and of course the3/142
author of classified woman Sibel Edmonds hello Sibel hello everyone it's been awhile since we've been able to convene in quite a bit has been happening in Ukraine and we'll start there I also during this conversation wanna learn more about the situation in Turkey and Sibel is certainly very well positioned to %HESITATION advance some of our knowledge about that but as we look at events in Ukraine4/142
the vote in Crimea the posturing of both sides %HESITATION the place I would like to start is trying to separate any kind of reality from the psychological operations of both sides we start with the US and NATO which was in a protracted %HESITATION effort to seduce kia in two Amy euro centric relationship most people characterize that is primarily trade issues but there's a lot of security5/142
%HESITATION that went with that package that is what many people believe caused Yanukovych yeah to tilt eastward to Moscow and of course there are still many questions about who the press street protesters were indeed made and square who the snipers were %HESITATION in some of the %HESITATION %HESITATION only needing events this of course occurred during the final week of prudence Olympics in Sochi Richard present some6/142
interesting contrasts and distractions but we also know that the U. S. spend at least five billion dollars on so called democracy building projects in Ukraine of that were aimed at destabilizing a democratic government %HESITATION corrupt yes but to the democratic I think most people would widely acknowledged and now similar to the way the U. S. pivoted after the military coup in Egypt last year and said7/142
that that coup put Egypt on a path to democracy the US now maintains the legitimacy of the self appointed government in Kiev against the challenges from Moscow about it's very legitimacy so those are just a few of the ops observations I have to open this discussion and %HESITATION I'm going to pick on James next %HESITATION you you didn't know this was coming but James said give8/142
us your thoughts and your perspectives on the offenses you've seen them from your post well I guess what strikes me first and foremost is the hypocrisy at every single stage of this %HESITATION this conflict so far the hypocrisy coming of course from people like John Kerry were not in the nineteenth century you can't invade a country on trumped up pretexts but I think the hypocrisy extends9/142
to pretty much everything that we've seen so far %HESITATION weight whether you look at stuff for example the the protest over the %HESITATION the Crimean rep referendum owe you can't you can't have a referendum like that %HESITATION that that's against the Ukrainian constitution as if the coup that happened it with the euro my down once I itself not in violation of the Ukrainian constitution and overthrow10/142
Vinal a democratically elected government %HESITATION they hypocrisy that comes from NATO preaching to Russia you have to stop you all of your posturing your military posturing on on the Russian side of the border there meanwhile of course Ukraine and and %HESITATION NATO are now can jointly conducting military exercises in the like so again hypocrisy on striking one more time and %HESITATION it if it continues to11/142
go off the chart charts and that I think rankles on anyone who is at even halfway paying attention to what's going on I mean that that that the propaganda that we're seeing now is ratcheted up to a level that I haven't seen in years and years on I imagine it was like this back during the original Cold War and %HESITATION and I think we're at the12/142
exact same level today and again that's not really surprising for regular let the listeners of of boiling frog post but just did the the blatant nature of it I mean just scrolling through the the news feed today I was looking for stories about Ukraine and every single one of them are from the Ukrainian NATO perspective not from the Ukrainian Russian perspective at all it it it13/142
it's every single one of them treats it like some some sort of for an alien entity that %HESITATION that that cannot be reasoned with cannot be understood has no no as sense of reason behind what they do and I think that the danger of this is is two fold because of course first of all there are the people who will simply body this who will buy14/142
this propaganda and what's going on right now and I of course we've seen that culturally happening on every single level that %HESITATION that now a prudent is being cast of some sort of demon from from hell or something and other people are just sleep walking into it the other problem is of course this is kind of a to quote a logical fallacy it's well the other15/142
guys are doing it so it's okay if we do it and I think we shouldn't fall into that trap on that that it's one side or another we should be on the Russian side as opposed to the NATO side I think what we are seeing is basically two powers carving out there a carving out a section of the a a country for their own geo political16/142
purposes and we would be naive to think that this doesn't that that couldn't or NATO are not interested in this for their own economic and geopolitical reasons rather than for the good of the Ukrainian people or the people of credit Crimea or what have you so I'm I'm wary of the number of pitfalls that come from this story so I'd I'd be interested to turn it17/142
over to Guillermo to get his take on on that and whether or not he thinks that this is again some some some sort of trap that were being forced into whether it's a pitcher movement you have to choose one side or the other yeah I do not agree with that sentiment in fact that's that's what struck me most about %HESITATION this the sort of stuff we've18/142
seen in the media so far %HESITATION you touched on it Peter touched on it that's the sort of PSYOP what everyone called propaganda war %HESITATION in the idea and in fact things you actually I think you touched on this I end up in a recent podcast %HESITATION which I thoroughly enjoyed because it's it's exactly the way I felt that the the enemy of my enemy is19/142
not necessarily my friend and the way this is been framed in the media thus far %HESITATION I think I said this once before but I I really do feel like it's like this it's it's more but something like that like a multiple choice test and one with only two answers it's either a or B. it's higher in there with you know the U. S. %HESITATION and20/142
%HESITATION and NATO are you with love the Russians if the words if you %HESITATION %HESITATION clean out %HESITATION the fact that none of this is in some way %HESITATION in many ways really %HESITATION been orchestrated by the U. S. and NATO what's happening in Ukraine then you are then by extension a a Russian apologist Europe Putin apologists and so forth and so that's the way it's21/142
been framed in most of the media and up until recently was most of the media across the board whether mainstream or alternative work in a pseudo alternative or whatever you wanna call it %HESITATION it's it's been like that %HESITATION hope that's been that sort of dichotomy that false dichotomy %HESITATION throughout in that's what really struck me the most about it %HESITATION that's what I kind of22/142
been focusing on is the way it's been framed in the media so great so far %HESITATION into something else you that you pointed out that I thought was worth the echoing and in regards to media as well of the way now Russia's painted in this if they're mentioned that already because the perspective is that it's all brought up it's in a sort of %HESITATION as you23/142
say %HESITATION and in a way that this is this other this other entity %HESITATION whatever it is I cannot be reasoned with cannot be talked to and in this is a classic %HESITATION de humanization tactic %HESITATION when painting your enemy or or %HESITATION how should I put this when framing an enemy it's important to do this of course in the minds of the public otherwise will24/142
be would be your enemy ticket if you saw them in the same way as were as relatable as as people was people they could be you know talk to with the and and you know something could be reached through diplomacy another word so that's something that gets forgotten immediately what we know of the book though that the war drums start beating I and that's always the25/142
solution is intervention on the part of either the military %HESITATION directly through the United States or through NATO so that's that's kind of my two cents on on that this for so bill well tell us what you think you're well I think a lot of posturing going on on both sides while both sides know exactly how this game is going to end because that historically Crimea26/142
has been in this situation for a long time they have there have always there has always been this kind of an invisible at the bicep line there between Crimea region and the rest of Ukraine if you look at Ukraine and and up I predict that it's going to end up with Crimea getting separated from from Ukraine and both parties after all the posturing saying okay now27/142
everything is fine and I'm I I wanna approaches from the Russian people's perspective because I think they are in a pretty screwed up situation as well in terms of being given information in Russia as we are here in the United States as well because it I'm I want us to take a look at the last let's say seventeen eighteen years okay me basically Monday's units similar28/142
games with Eastern Europe I mean he chopped and divided Serbia be had Albania and Kosovo and Bosnia the ride in mujahedin from across the Middle East into Eastern Europe and basically toward hard and you might get those nations we woke up all those countries just the way that's going to happen Ukraine I'm just really what happened with Russia what the Russia really do I mean do29/142
you have some posturing there but you SNA till they have cool fleet freehand going in there and taking care of Eastern Europe anti think already Eastern Europe and guess what happened next we have started putting all our bases there I mean name a country he's Eastern Europe today that is not a NATO base can you think of any I mean take a look at it Romania30/142
Poland and so that's what happened and the song nothing from Russia you know up zero zilch and then move forward fast forward to the past I would say fifteen sixteen years me Saddam meddling out positioning ourselves and by we I was I mean the United States and NATO in all over Central Asia caucuses Azerbaijan candidate NATO member okay meet all our troops actually get already that31/142
NATO troops there and they have been training them and it's not in the two thousand two Georgia NATO candidate if you look at the proximity of these nations these ex Soviet bloc to Russia what has Russia now I'm in face of all these bases coming right in his backyard really what has it done until recently we have proved this is then we have the manas air32/142
base so Kurdistan kicked us out and we were not really I'm happy with it because who business plan lost this importance now be have georgianne behalf Azerbaijan you're talking about Estonia we are talking about Lithuania well I think what Russia has had for the past couple of decades since the Soviets fall they haven't had real nationalist presidents they have have president Sam and leaders that are33/142
they're good at posturing like you can get Syria everything well to has to do is to a certain degree the posturing otherwise cute and won't stay in this position but its beauty and real Russian nationalists easier Russian nationals president I would say absolutely not and the guy before Pugin absolutely not yeah are you kidding me just the other day I was reading this article they gain34/142
somebody rooted in Russia and it had to do with the network all day and that they were putting you somewhere between two hundred fifty million dollars and five hundred million dollars and supposedly all these assets his money and this dispute as is outside Russia well while I was working with the FBI through some of the targets he had there were a lot of discussions and intelligence35/142
exchange that have to do with lot of assets that actually even at that time you can have in Cyprus the Greek side cypress well what is this Greece is not NATO so you're looking at Russia demand by people who really don't have that we feel the Russian nationalists a mental attitude or or or the feelings or to believe they are not I Yaquina idealists they are36/142
not the Russian idealist because of that I kind of shrugged off his entire pop of cold war and I know that both parties know the end game and that's being butane and also you in NATO and the United States Crimea eventually within the next few months is gonna be separated just as we saw happening Mindy had Yugoslavia and will that I stand disappearing and getting into37/142
this little trance MP says so that's exactly what we are seeing and that that's that's how I view the entire situation that we are seeing I'd like to ask of each of the panelists just to critique the United States in this episode because I think that that the %HESITATION the shift last August when Obama threatened military action against Syria and took us to the brink of38/142
war only to be rescued by Putin %HESITATION up I saved from himself is is how I would describe it love and I think that prudence saw that is a tremendous weakness on the part of the United States and coupling that with the the personal snub because Obama wouldn't attend the Olympics but Obama said he was doing that because ed Snowden is still in Moscow %HESITATION and39/142
perhaps over the the gay issues %HESITATION but a bottom line is I think that there's a combination of ego and and personal pique plus the opportunism that was %HESITATION really exposed in the the way the U. S. mishandled that episode with Syria James you wanna start well I think there's something to what you're saying but to be honest I don't put a lot of trunk in40/142
the idea that this really does come down to the the interpersonal conflicts of people like Obama and Putin I think this is part of a much much broader agenda that has been playing out through administration after administration us as the bell with saying for for at least a decade and a half we've been watching this gradual encirclement of Russia by NATO and as again Isabel pointed41/142
out that we haven't seen a lot of reaction from Russia either geo politically economically in in any real way to this and that again remains the puzzling part and this is something that's a bill and I ride dressed a number of times in our inner Gladio be series and some of our other talks where we know that Russia is well aware of the fact that the42/142
NATO Gladio has been operating on their doorstep for for a live very long time now and continues to it to threaten with these %HESITATION staged in and and problem from provoked a terror attacks and yet when although presumably they do have the goods on this have still not come out with though the %HESITATION the the great produce the goods to to show that this is happening43/142
and it really does raise the question of why what is going on here why do they hold back and I think one of the answers to that question that at least makes %HESITATION some plausible sense is that and then war on terror narrative in all of this again serves Russian interests are in the same way that it serves the interests at home so that Obama can44/142
can use the other national security threat to add to to implement whatever type of agenda he's looking for in the same way that Russia can use the national security threat and couldn't connect parade on the the victims of various terror attacks including the ones that heap if not staged at least there are certainly a lot on a look the other way when they happened back when45/142
he was coming into office back in nineteen ninety nine with the Moscow apartment building bombings which again I think is a very very blatant fault false flag event that needs to be looked into so I I again I think that's a rather than looking at these individual leaders I think what we need to do is examine the geo political and economic interests behind them and die46/142
and again I I I I I will have to side with the villainous I I I I do see that the propaganda war framing this as the new Cold War and in so far is that is the new frame for what's going on I think that that will play itself out in reality and I think there will be that said that that tension everything will be47/142
framed within that from now on but I really do question to what extent these people are not if not exactly on the same side at least not exactly on opposite sides they're using the same strategies in the same type of terror campaigns in like to produce the same results in their in their populations so I'm I'm quite skeptical about the way this is all being framed48/142
in and where it's heading from here and there again that's why I've I want to warn about the of the the either or mentality that comes along with these types of conflicts yeah that's a very good point the false choices are often of you know just presented to distract you from a whole range of other possibilities and %HESITATION it's it's quite effective there's no doubt about49/142
it Guillermo yeah I guess just to add to that I mean that I know what you're saying as far as %HESITATION what disappears like on the surface that I with regard to this new Cold War AFRICOM injuries like this I am depressed I specifically regarding Snowden because you you brought him up Peter up into this was that supposed to be you know Putin scraped a chess50/142
piece that he was able to claim in an up and providing us noted asylums even claim this %HESITATION politically as a great victory as has been answered you know put it in the face of the United States and of course theory is another one of those things that it that superficially at least I could be using that same way I think you're on the something though51/142
James it's very interesting and it's it's giving me at least some some pause for thought of the idea that this global war on terror meme benefits not just the United States but countries like Russia as well %HESITATION bits at that again appear to be diametrically opposed but are they really so that's interesting %HESITATION again it's given me a lot that went up to think about but52/142
other than that I really don't know what's what's a thought what else to offer at the moment regarding that a specifically so bill as I said if you months ago seven eight months ago I sent the steamy out while the only thing we are seeing here is a pause the only thing we are seeing it has been placed on because and he's going to restart the53/142
game he is not that okay prominently hands off I so want beauty and got his way no not at all and if you look at the latest bill that was passed the fact that he just sent tanks to the rebels the fact that is heating up again being at the situation between Turkey and Syria which is the chart the they're talking about NATO and US of54/142
course green light and and and the leading from the back you're saying that you're going back again but but Syria armor and and it didn't have James really articulated all those points very very well and we are totally %HESITATION any agreements and that they do not want to go back to the Russian side and say well one of the things that the Russians are experiencing here55/142
is is the neutered Russia I mean truly he has been the neutered Russia and %HESITATION I am trying to keep up and follow up the news on the other factions within Russia whether the you know the E. L. ultra nationalists or that or even that moderate nationalists in Russia how do they really utis seeing themselves as a nation sitting there and they have been really nonstop56/142
consistently being in a circle and circle and circle me think about it behind that brief episode oh quite six seven days war between Georgiana hacia and Georgia is basically almost there being here you know formally official even though I'm officially has been part of NATO rally and become a NATO member and as I you know talked about in the in and last time we talked about57/142
this a bit Azerbaijan and what's happening because of my job so the circle is really closing in and we really don't see anything in Russia and of course that the other thing that the pause and I would say have to do with some of the discontent here domestically in the United States on the issue of Syria you know it was pretty tweaked would leap yeah it